the situation in Egypt
- Thread starter VINYLONE
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Chad Feldheimer
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LogGrad98
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Repped.
The Thriller
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LOL.
Americans that cheer them on need to do so with a great uneasiness.
Since when has Democracy worked in the middle east? Strong leaders appear to be needed to control the differing ethical and religious factions and radical groups.
So be careful, the populist leader that might come into power could easily be worse than the leader they had before. Change isn't always good. Just ask Iraq, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Afghanistan, S. Vietnam, etc.
Americans that cheer them on need to do so with a great uneasiness.
Since when has Democracy worked in the middle east? Strong leaders appear to be needed to control the differing ethical and religious factions and radical groups.
So be careful, the populist leader that might come into power could easily be worse than the leader they had before. Change isn't always good. Just ask Iraq, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Afghanistan, S. Vietnam, etc.
Twin Towers
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo5Fn1-2E8o&has_verified=1
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...ptian-activists-action-plan-translated/70388/
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...ptian-activists-action-plan-translated/70388/
I call your 2011 Egyptian Revolution and raise with 1979 Iranian Revolution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1B2IGur2XI
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
I love this. Whether or not this gets the outcome they want. Which is freedom. It still spreads the message correctly and these people understand what they want. This isn't a normal riot. This inspires me and gives me hope for the world. When we allow our governments to do whatever they want tyranny happens. So standing up for freedom is what is important here. That message will never be silenced.
(Ezra Taft Benson, December 19, 1963.)
Chad Feldheimer
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LogGrad98
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I am very surprised you have not been flamed incessantly for this blatant reference to mormonism.
DutchJazzer
Banned
Egypt: America fighting wrong time wrong country for freedom
now that a middle eastern country wants freedom. where is america. ooh wait thye're busy FORCING "freedom" on iraq and afghanistan.
now that a middle eastern country wants freedom. where is america. ooh wait thye're busy FORCING "freedom" on iraq and afghanistan.
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Chad Feldheimer
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Remember when the Dutch supported and fought with the US in Iraq & Afghanistan?
DutchJazzer
Banned
good thing i'm not a dutchman(nationality), i just speak that language
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
What country are you from then?
DutchJazzer
Banned
some country in south america it acutally doenst matter cus i dont feel like a specific countryman. I'm what you might called a cosmopolitan. my pasport/nationality is just a piece of paper. wich as much wortth as a roll of toiletpaper.
asian_roger
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Isn't Egypt one of best allies down there? A radical change in their government might make it anti-American and I don't think America really wants that. Their president has and will never step down and that's ok to America if he is our friend i guess.
DutchJazzer
Banned
which is pretty ironic.
gives the war in iraq a different twist
bringing freedom to people who do not request it. but bring it anyway because iraq is no friend of us.
but the people who risk their life and fight for freedom, get no help. because the government is a friend.
hmmm pretty hypocritical. thats why i dont believe in governments i guess.
lies. secrets, double agenda, and so fort
Stickler
Well-Known Member
Dutch, be careful that when you speak of America, you speak of its government, and not of its people.
In defense of our government, I would ask you: what role would you have them play in the Egyptian revolution? In the Middle East, a region where American credibility is a troubled thing at best, would you have America send in soldiers to oust the Egyptian president and overthrow the government there? That is not feasible -- our military is otherwise occupied. That is not wise -- the people of Egypt will replace Mubarak. American intervention is not necessary. In the event of American intervention, there are many powers in the region who would call a new government illegitimate, and it would result in a government that would be dangerously fragile. Is that what you would like to see for the people of Egypt?
Now, I was personally extremely disappointed in Obama's response the other day. (Was it only yesterday? This is all moving along so quickly.) I was upset that he did not come out on the side of the people, who are demanding freedom, equity, and quite possibly real democracy. I found his bet-hedging to be almost anti-human and robotically political. And yet I understood that it had to be that way, because of Egypt's positive relationship with Israel and the United States in a region where we need every friend we can find.
I'm rabid with anger at our American news sources, which are frankly, flat-out just not good enough.
I know there's a legion of people out there who hear the conservative commentators framing this revolution as a kind of punchline, and believe, because they are not exposed to better sources of information, that the Egyptians have taken to the streets because their dictator is not Muslim enough. Thousands or millions of Americans are worrying today over the potential for a new extreme Muslim regime to emerge out of this situation and further destabilize the world.
****ing hogwash.
So I, too, am displeased with America this week -- but the difference between you and me is that at least I can articulate why. This is not a moment to gloat over the evils of America in some half-assed gloat-speak. Where's America? Pffff. We didn't cause this. We couldn't have prevented this. And now that it's happening, we can't fix this.
This is in the hands of our Egyptian brothers and sisters.
How about the Royal Netherlands army swoops into Egypt and saves the day and feeds these people and ousts the despot and creates an Egyptian economy where every person can have a job and live with the dignity that they deserve? How'd that be? Where's the ****ing Dutch in all of this?
In defense of our government, I would ask you: what role would you have them play in the Egyptian revolution? In the Middle East, a region where American credibility is a troubled thing at best, would you have America send in soldiers to oust the Egyptian president and overthrow the government there? That is not feasible -- our military is otherwise occupied. That is not wise -- the people of Egypt will replace Mubarak. American intervention is not necessary. In the event of American intervention, there are many powers in the region who would call a new government illegitimate, and it would result in a government that would be dangerously fragile. Is that what you would like to see for the people of Egypt?
Now, I was personally extremely disappointed in Obama's response the other day. (Was it only yesterday? This is all moving along so quickly.) I was upset that he did not come out on the side of the people, who are demanding freedom, equity, and quite possibly real democracy. I found his bet-hedging to be almost anti-human and robotically political. And yet I understood that it had to be that way, because of Egypt's positive relationship with Israel and the United States in a region where we need every friend we can find.
I'm rabid with anger at our American news sources, which are frankly, flat-out just not good enough.
I know there's a legion of people out there who hear the conservative commentators framing this revolution as a kind of punchline, and believe, because they are not exposed to better sources of information, that the Egyptians have taken to the streets because their dictator is not Muslim enough. Thousands or millions of Americans are worrying today over the potential for a new extreme Muslim regime to emerge out of this situation and further destabilize the world.
****ing hogwash.
So I, too, am displeased with America this week -- but the difference between you and me is that at least I can articulate why. This is not a moment to gloat over the evils of America in some half-assed gloat-speak. Where's America? Pffff. We didn't cause this. We couldn't have prevented this. And now that it's happening, we can't fix this.
This is in the hands of our Egyptian brothers and sisters.
How about the Royal Netherlands army swoops into Egypt and saves the day and feeds these people and ousts the despot and creates an Egyptian economy where every person can have a job and live with the dignity that they deserve? How'd that be? Where's the ****ing Dutch in all of this?
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