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Jamezz said:
A friend once told me I was delusional, I almost fell of my unicorn.

Yes the problem could be solved by destroying all the guns in the world. I admire you're idealistic yet non-realistic view. Crime rate in gun-free Chicago anyone?
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I'm sure people told columbus he was delusional when he said the earth was round and he could sail to new lands.
The Wright brothers were delusional for trying to achieve flight.
NASA was delusional for thinking that something could be launched into space.
MLK was delusional for believing in equality as were gay folks.
Black president? Never happen
Hell there was probably a time when the thought of a gun was delusional. Yet here we are


Lots of things seem unrealistic but get achieved anyway
 
fishonjazz said:
I'm just glad Martin Luther King didn't think this way
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Civil rights =/= gun ownership.

But sure, keep advocating for gun bans and getting shot down. Over and over and over because the courts and constitution don't buy your argument of banning guns is the morally right thing to do.

I'll be over here discussing realistic steps towards solving the problem. Like gun education, improved back round checks, improving the process to get a CC permit, border security...
 
Stoked said:
Civil rights =/= gun ownership.

But sure, keep advocating for gun bans and getting shot down. Over and over and over because the courts and constitution don't buy your argument of banning guns is the morally right thing to do.

I'll be over here discussing realistic steps towards solving the problem. Like gun education, improved back round checks, improving the process to get a CC permit, border security...
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I don't advocate anything. And I have 2 guns in my house.
I just think there being less guns would be a good thing and I think that lots of things that were once thought of as impossible or unrealistic have already happened
 
Jamezz said:
I'm not trolling. That's the whole point, if you ban guns most citizens will follow the law just to not get in trouble while as the evil-doers will still get access to guns one way or another, in the black market etc... So basically it would be a ban aimed at responsible citizens. It's just logical thinking.
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All bans are aimed at responsible citizens. That's the nature of any law.
 
fishonjazz said:
I don't advocate anything. And I have 2 guns in my house.
I just think there being less guns would be a good thing and I think that lots of things that were once thought of as impossible or unrealistic have already happened
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Well, less guns or no guns. A gun ban means no guns, not less guns.

There are actually programs across the nation aimed at removing guns from society. Dozens of police departments have programs where you can turn in a gun no questions asked.

I find "less" guns worth talking about. Something realistic. I'd be OK with offering some sort of compensation for turning in firearms. Cash, gift cards, coupons...

JimLes said:
Last time I checked, gun ownership does not cause a physical addiction.
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Lol, You disagree and that's fine. But a gun ban will create a black market. Why? because nto everyone shares your views or your morals.
 
Stoked said:
Lol, You disagree and that's fine. But a gun ban will create a black market. Why? because nto everyone shares your views.
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I think his point is that the reason there is a black market for drugs is because they are physically addictive. If they were not then most heroine, crack, meth addicts would stop doing them once they realized how dangerous they are..... But they can't due to severe physical addiction.
But guns are not physically addictive so it's more realistic. Just have to change the culture and thought process of the gun owners
 
Another difference between guns and drugs.
I don't know how to make a gun. Making drugs is easy for any idiot. You can sell drugs in bags the size of a dime. Super easy to conceal and transport and therefore distribute to customers.

The gun black market would not be the same as the drug blackmarket is for these types of reasons
 
Stoked said:
That's the point. It is only a dream and not realistic.

So let's focus on realistic things that might make a change for the better instead of sticking our heads in the clouds while nothing gets done.
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the war on sin is over. We are sinners, dudes, through and through. Best to think about things from this stuck position.
 
Stoked said:
Well, less guns or no guns. A gun ban means no guns, not less guns.

There are actually programs across the nation aimed at removing guns from society. Dozens of police departments have programs where you can turn in a gun no questions asked.

I find "less" guns worth talking about. Something realistic. I'd be OK with offering some sort of compensation for turning in firearms. Cash, gift cards, coupons...



Lol, You disagree and that's fine. But a gun ban will create a black market. Why? because nto everyone shares your views or your morals.
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Create a black market? A black market already exist and is in full force.
 
Stoked said:
Lol, You disagree and that's fine. But a gun ban will create a black market. Why? because nto everyone shares your views or your morals.
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Of course it will, but not nearly to the extent of the drug market. Many things are illegal and the black market for them isn't nearly as extensive because there isn't a demand, like exotic pets. Drugs are very, very particular case.

Anyway, you're talking about morality here, yet your opposition to the idea of a gun ban is:

a) Some people might not be happy about the attempt to create a better society
b) It may take year to create this better society, so we shouldn't bother

Neither of these sound like moral arguments.
 
I don't think a ban on guns would significantly grow the already large black market for guns.
 
And again, it's not necessarily about guns themselves. It's about the society they've created. The society of physicality, of settling disputes ourselves, of "I-have-the-right-to-defend-my-property," of dealing with a bully by standing up to them, of frontier mentality, of glorification and celebration of violence, of a warped definition of masculinity.

Instead of thinking we need a gun to protect our loved ones, would it not be better to build a society where we'd feel no such need? Or do we just dismiss it as a pipe dream?
 
JimLes said:
And again, it's not necessarily about guns themselves. It's about the society they've created. The society of physicality, of settling disputes ourselves, of "I-have-the-right-to-defend-my-property," of dealing with a bully by standing up to them, of frontier mentality, of glorification and celebration of violence, of a warped definition of masculinity.

Instead of thinking we need a gun to protect our loved ones, would it not be better to build a society where we'd feel no such need? Or do we just dismiss it as a pipe dream?
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Perhaps we should work on changing that thinking before we go out and ban something. Otherwise lets go and ban everything that can be harmful towards humans.


Now I own a lot of guns. I enjoy them, I think they're fun. They definitely have uses. I would be opposed to a ban, but I do think we need to increase education on guns. We have required classes on sex, drugs, alcohol...why don't we do the same with guns? Why is that so unrealistic? We have a large amount of people spewing out rhetoric on a subject they know practically nothing about.

As for the "protect your property" thing...I don't think you quite understand. Most people don't want to shoot somebody. I know I don't. I would live with that the rest of my life, and I don't really care to do that. At the same time, I live 20 minutes away from the police. Even if you live closer, it's still going to be a minimum of 5-10 minutes response time. It's my duty, my role, to protect my family. If that means shooting somebody, than so be it. It's a last resort obviously, but I'm not letting somebody harm my family, and I don't think it's morally right to take away the ability to do that either.
 
On another subject, banning guns would really harm the cattle industry. And expect huge growths in wild game, and diseases.
 
King Cy said:
Create a black market? A black market already exist and is in full force.
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Fair enough. You are correct. "Dramatically increase the demand and supply on the black market" is a better way to say it.

The reason I think the demand will grow is you now have a much larger clientele for guns. Instead of lets say a million people looking to buy black market guns you have 30, 40, 50 million... looking to buy a firearm.

Not to mention those that come up with a home made work around...
 
NAOS said:
fishonjazz is running circles around stoked
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I'm glad you see a position you already agree with as the right one and running circles around those that don't agree.

Surprising, no really.

Still trying to engage in a useless religious debate I see. Keep plugging away and maybe someone will take your bait.
 
fishonjazz said:
Another difference between guns and drugs.
I don't know how to make a gun. Making drugs is easy for any idiot. You can sell drugs in bags the size of a dime. Super easy to conceal and transport and therefore distribute to customers.

The gun black market would not be the same as the drug blackmarket is for these types of reasons
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There are plenty that do know how to make guns. Also carrying and concealing a firearm is extremely easy. Not all guns are 12 gauge shotguns.
 
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