The lunatics have taken over

[Red]

It's dangerous because it's not Biblically supported.....as are many so-called "Christian" traditions that have been adopted from "Pagan" teachings and beliefs! Biblical "truths" and so called "Christian" traditions are completely different and opposites! Consider this fact: real yoga is not merely a form of exercise. It is a Hindu religious practice. “The chief aim of the Yoga philosophy is to teach the means by which the human soul may be completely united with the Supreme Spirit,” according to Dr.B.S.Surti.....whether one wants to admit to it or not!

The unvarnished truth is that the practice of yoga....in any form.....is spiritism, which is condemned in the Bible. (Rev. 21:8) Chiefly behind such occult power is “the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth.” (Rev. 12:9) Because of that reason, Yoga in any form cannot benefit you. It can only do you harm.

Well, I fully realize I'm talking to a completely close minded individual here, but I'm going to waste my time and point out just how wrong you are, anyway. You mention that yoga desires the soul be completely united with the Supreme Spirit, as if this were somehow a very bad thing? Yet such a unitive state is precisely the goal of Christian mysticism:


https://www.blessed-sacrament.org/contemplation1.doc

The unitive state of the soul with the Godhead is the ultimate goal of the Christian contemplative tradition. Why you would find that antithetical to Christianity, or something that is somehow wrong eludes me. But, obviously, I'll stop here. I just thought I would counter your misconceptions. You really don't know what you are talking about where yoga is concerned, but are instead relying on your bigoted assumptions. This is a level of hubris I am not accustomed to seeing in an individual. I'm not going to say I feel sorry for you, because the fact is, there are many uneducated dogmatic close minded individuals like yourself out there. And you'll never grow into any meaningful understanding. You are likely destined to remain locked in your dark little world for the remainder of your life. But here, I'm glad to see, your nonsense does indeed fall on deaf ears and far more perceptive people.

 

[carolinajazz]

The unitive state of the soul with the Godhead is the ultimate goal of the Christian contemplative tradition. Why you would find that antithetical to Christianity, or something that is somehow wrong eludes me.

The "ultimate goal"? How did you reach that conclusion? First of all, the human "soul" is not what you think it is at all! The Bible's definition of the "soul" is FAR DIFFERENT than what apostate main stream "Christendom" defines or thinks it is! The idea that prevailed in ancient Babylon and spread worldwide—the idea that man has an immortal soul or spirit that merely inhabits a physical body, is NOT what the Bible teaches!

When Christendom adopted that idea, theologians twisted the Scriptures to make texts that describe the heavenly hope appear to teach that all good people go to heaven. According to this view, a person’s life on earth is intended to be transitory—a test to determine if he is worthy of life in heaven. Something similar happened to the early Jewish hope of everlasting life on earth. As the Jews gradually adopted the Greek idea of inherent immortality, their original hope of life on earth faded. How different this is from the way man is presented in the Bible! Man is a physical creature, not a spirit. The Creator said to the first man: “Dust you are.” (Gen. 3:19) The earth, not heaven, is man’s everlasting home.

(Psalm 115:16) " As for the heavens, they belong to God, But the earth he has given to the sons of men."

That the Soul Is Immortal...is a myth!

What is the origin of the myth? “The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume*11, page*25.

What does the Bible say? “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.
Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “ God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

I'm not "closed minded" by any stretch of the imagination! Heck, I've already reversed my viewpoint on Curry....and I think he's the best shooter in NBA history! But what is established truth is the TRUTH!

Since nothing is said to imply that the first man was implanted with a soul or received it, we must ask: If the soul “came to be” only after breathing began, why conclude that it continues to live when a person stops breathing and dies? There is no mistaking this fact: Breathing is of do-or-die importance to a soul.

While man is distinct from animals, it is not because of his being a soul. When God let loose devastating floodwaters in Noah’s day, ‘all flesh, flying creatures, domestic animals, wild beasts, all the swarms, and mankind, everything in which the breath of the force of life was active in its nostrils died.’ Those same kinds of animals are called “living souls” in the creation account.

Consider how the Bible describes the creation of animals. “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls,” God commanded. On the next creative day, God said: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” (Genesis 1:20,*24) Therefore, all living creatures—human or animal—are souls.

 

[carolinajazz]

And you guys say "Yoga" is "harmless" and "in offensive"?

I suspect that when the big crack down comes on Muslims in this country.....they won't be kind to those "practicing Yoga" either!

"Desperate to empty the Guantanamo Bay prison by the end of his term, Obama quietly is giving “get out of jail free” cards for the flimsiest of excuses.

One al Qaeda suspect captured in Afghanistan is considered reformed because he took up yoga and read a biography of the Dalai Lama. Another is eligible for release because of his “positive attitude.”

https://nypost.com/2014/06/07/no-reform-too-absurd-for-obama-to-spring-gitmo-detainees/

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/06/...p-yoga-and-read-a-biography-of-the-dalai-lama

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

The "ultimate goal"? How did you reach that conclusion? First of all, the human "soul" is not what you think it is at all! The Bible's definition of the "soul" is FAR DIFFERENT than what apostate main stream "Christendom" defines or thinks it is! The idea that prevailed in ancient Babylon and spread worldwide—the idea that man has an immortal soul or spirit that merely inhabits a physical body, is NOT what the Bible teaches!

When Christendom adopted that idea, theologians twisted the Scriptures to make texts that describe the heavenly hope appear to teach that all good people go to heaven. According to this view, a person’s life on earth is intended to be transitory—a test to determine if he is worthy of life in heaven. Something similar happened to the early Jewish hope of everlasting life on earth. As the Jews gradually adopted the Greek idea of inherent immortality, their original hope of life on earth faded. How different this is from the way man is presented in the Bible! Man is a physical creature, not a spirit. The Creator said to the first man: “Dust you are.” (Gen. 3:19) The earth, not heaven, is man’s everlasting home.

(Psalm 115:16) " As for the heavens, they belong to God, But the earth he has given to the sons of men."

That the Soul Is Immortal...is a myth!

What is the origin of the myth? “The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume*11, page*25.

What does the Bible say? “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.
Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “ God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

I'm not "closed minded" by any stretch of the imagination! Heck, I've already reversed my viewpoint on Curry....and I think he's the best shooter in NBA history! But what is established truth is the TRUTH!

Since nothing is said to imply that the first man was implanted with a soul or received it, we must ask: If the soul “came to be” only after breathing began, why conclude that it continues to live when a person stops breathing and dies? There is no mistaking this fact: Breathing is of do-or-die importance to a soul.

While man is distinct from animals, it is not because of his being a soul. When God let loose devastating floodwaters in Noah’s day, ‘all flesh, flying creatures, domestic animals, wild beasts, all the swarms, and mankind, everything in which the breath of the force of life was active in its nostrils died.’ Those same kinds of animals are called “living souls” in the creation account.

Consider how the Bible describes the creation of animals. “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls,” God commanded. On the next creative day, God said: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” (Genesis 1:20,*24) Therefore, all living creatures—human or animal—are souls.

Plagiarism

 

[carolinajazz]

Plagiarism

...but is it true?

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

...but is it true?

You are so oblivious that it boggles my mind.

 

[Red]

carolinajazz wrote:

"The 'ultimate goal'? How did you reach that conclusion?

You don't deserve an honest reply, of course, but I'll be a nice guy and lay it on ya anyway.
After all, you keep providing openings...

I was speaking of what a Christian contemplative might call the unitive state. Go back and read it again.
The simple fact is you launch into your Bible in a "first and last of all" sense that is your problem. Not mine. Between the time the Bible was written, both Testaments and the present day, a monastic tradition has existed to permit individuals compelled to be closer to that which they call God a means to do so. Again, the individual can debate the validity of such a path, but people seek meaning, always have, always will. Spiritual understanding does not begin and end with the Bible. The fact that it does for you is, again, your problem, not mine.

So, one quote from a Christian mystic, describing this unitive state, that puzzles you so. It may puzzle everyone but me, I fully admit, but here is an excellent example of what I mean. You don't deserve to be introduced to this man's mind, but I'm having a good day....

“The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.”


― Meister Eckhart, Sermons of Meister Eckhart

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/73092.Meister_Eckhart

Did it not ever occur to you that seekers after truth, meaning, wisdom, God have actually walked the Earth since your Bible was first written? Did it not ever occur to you that you could learn from them?

 

[Red]

carolinajazz, although it's pointless to think you can learn or accept something new and outside your fossilized straight jacket religious ideology, I'm going to lay more food for thought on you then your closed mind has coming. (I also thought our other respondents would appreciate blowing you out of the water). Sadly, your perspective is not far removed from other religious zealots rampaging the world at the moment. So let's spell some things out and shed some light....

“they do him wrong who take God just in one particular way. They take the way rather than God’ (Sermon 19).”
― Meister Eckhart, Selected Writings

Your's is a controlling religion. Not too unlike the controlling religion of certain fanatics. More a codified ideology then a faith. Where's the love? I think we've outgrown wrathful gods. I think we desperately need to outgrow wrathful deities.

A god that expects rules be enforced. Codified. Fossilized. Meanwhile, people of all faiths or none seek meaning in life outside this highly codified interpretation of the "correct" faith, the "right" religion. Your's is a fossilized Christianity. One that does not promote spiritual growth in the here and now. Meister Eckhart says it better then I ever could. "They do him wrong who take God just in one particular way."


“The most powerful prayer, one well-nigh omnipotent, and the worthiest work of all is the outcome of a quiet mind. The quieter it is the more powerful, the worthier, the deeper, the more telling and more perfect the prayer is. To the quiet mind all things are possible. What is a quiet mind? A quiet mind is one which nothing weighs on, nothing worries, which, free from ties and from all self-seeking, is wholly merged into the will of God and dead to its own.”
― Meister Eckhart

Quieting the mind. Where have we seen that practiced elsewhere? Yoga and meditation perchance? The same goal, the unitive state. The same spiritual exercises to facilitate quieting the mind. East and West. The commonality of the inner traditions of the world's major faiths. Meanwhile, you're mired in a fossilized form of Christianity, unable to understand. Like fanatics of all stripes, you lay your opinion down as a proclamation, and claim to reflect the will of God. Such arrogance! Such audacity! Such utter foolishness!

“There exists only the present instant... a Now which always and without end is itself new. There is no yesterday nor any tomorrow, but only Now, as it was a thousand years ago and as it will be a thousand years hence.”
― Meister Eckhart

Theologians may quarrel, but the mystics of the world speak the same language.”
― Meister Eckhart

The mystics speak the same language, carolinajazz, because there is only one Truth, and whatever practices facilitate achieving that realization is to be encouraged, not condemned by close minded ideologues.

You're best bet is to cease thinking you have the authority to judge yoga, or to judge how people believe or disbelieve, seek or don't seek, read the Bible or never turn a single page. To think you can memorize the Bible and obtain the authority to tell others what is Truth is folly. Your's is a fossilized faith. It's a thing of the past, and in this time, dangerous as well. It is your controlling ideology that portends greater danger, not a technique for healing body and mind. Fear and anger underly your ideology, just as it does the ideology of certain fanatics. If mystics speak the same language, and they do, so too do religious fanatics.

The time for wrathful gods and their warriors, be they Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, must pass. Your fanaticism is telling, and no different then the bad guys that plague our world. The same wrathful god. Please stop pretending you have any authority at all in these matters. We cannot judge yoga from the perspective of an ideologue. It is a warped, indeed a sick, perspective.

And please, don't lecture me on the "proper" definition of the human soul. You would do well to do something about that hubris of yours....

“Love is as strong as death, as hard as Hell. Death separates the soul from the body, but love separates all things from the soul.”
― Meister Eckhart


All quotes:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/73092.Meister_Eckhart

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

And you guys say "Yoga" is "harmless" and "in offensive"?

I suspect that when the big crack down comes on Muslims in this country.....they won't be kind to those "practicing Yoga" either!

"Desperate to empty the Guantanamo Bay prison by the end of his term, Obama quietly is giving “get out of jail free” cards for the flimsiest of excuses.

One al Qaeda suspect captured in Afghanistan is considered reformed because he took up yoga and read a biography of the Dalai Lama. Another is eligible for release because of his “positive attitude.”

https://nypost.com/2014/06/07/no-reform-too-absurd-for-obama-to-spring-gitmo-detainees/

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/06/...p-yoga-and-read-a-biography-of-the-dalai-lama

So, CJ, you are a self-proclaimed God loving/fearing, Bible adhering person. No doubt you consider yourself a good Christian and a follower of Jesus.

So, in this light, how do you square your bigotry with the teachings of Jesus from the New Testament, including the following:

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
John 13: 34-35 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

I'm serious. What kind of rationalizing goes on in your head that leads you to conclude that racism and bigotry are consistent with the teachings of the person you claim to follow who taught that emphathy and loving one's fellow man are among the highest human virtues?

Since you like to quote the Bible so much, and given John 13: 34-35, is there any reason I should not conclude that are not one of Jesus' followers?

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

So, CJ, you are a self-proclaimed God loving/fearing, Bible adhering person. No doubt you consider yourself a good Christian and a follower of Jesus.

So, in this light, how do you square your bigotry with the teachings of Jesus from the New Testament, including the following:

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
John 13: 34-35 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

I'm serious. What kind of rationalizing goes on in your head that leads you to conclude that racism and bigotry are consistent with the teachings of the person you claim to follow who taught that emphathy and loving one's fellow man are among the highest human virtues?

Since you like to quote the Bible so much, and given John 13: 34-35, is there any reason I should not conclude that are not one of Jesus' followers?

I have a feeling that we'd better brace ourselves for a cut and paste nightmare.

 

[carolinajazz]

carolinajazz wrote:

"The 'ultimate goal'? How did you reach that conclusion?

You don't deserve an honest reply, of course, but I'll be a nice guy and lay it on ya anyway.
After all, you keep providing openings...

Did it not ever occur to you that seekers after truth, meaning, wisdom.....Did it not ever occur to you that you could learn from them?

You can certainly "learn" from anybody....even if it's what NOT to do! As far as equating "truth" with "wisdom" I'm inclined toward this "truth" as found at 1 Corinthians 3:18, 19 "let no one be seducing himself: If anyone among YOU thinks he is wise in this system of things, let him become a fool, that he may become wise.  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.”

And Proverbs 14:12 " There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward."

 

[carolinajazz]

carolinajazz, although it's pointless to think you can learn or accept something new and outside your fossilized straight jacket religious ideology, I'm going to lay more food for thought on you then your closed mind has coming. (I also thought our other respondents would appreciate blowing you out of the water). So let's spell some things out and shed some light....

“they do him wrong who take God just in one particular way. They take the way rather than God’ (Sermon 19).”
― Meister Eckhart, Selected Writings

A god that expects rules be enforced. Codified. Fossilized. Your's is a fossilized Christianity. One that does not promote spiritual growth in the here and now. Meister Eckhart says it better then I ever could. "They do him wrong who take God just in one particular way."

Quieting the mind. Where have we seen that practiced elsewhere? Yoga and meditation perchance? Meanwhile, you're mired in a fossilized form of Christianity, unable to understand. Like fanatics of all stripes, you lay your opinion down as a proclamation, and claim to reflect the will of God. Such arrogance! Such audacity! Such utter foolishness!

The mystics speak the same language, carolinajazz, because there is only one Truth, and whatever practices facilitate achieving that realization is to be encouraged, not condemned by close minded ideologues.

To think you can memorize the Bible and obtain the authority to tell others what is Truth is folly.

The time for wrathful gods and their warriors, be they Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, must pass.

And please, don't lecture me on the "proper" definition of the human soul.

“Love is as strong as death, as hard as Hell. Death separates the soul from the body, but love separates all things from the soul.”
― Meister Eckhart

I appreciate your observations and viewpoints and it's true....on these boards we sometimes get obsessed with "blowing each other out of the water!" That being said, it seems to me that your viewpoint and opinion on some of these matters being discussed is based on Mr. Meister Eckhart, a German theologian, philosopher and mystic, thus feeling his words of "wisdom" are superior to that of my quotes and use of the Bible! If that's who you want to follow and use as an authority then so be it! But my use of the Bible Canon, is, in fact, the real "truth" on these matters, since it is the product of, not human wisdom but Divine wisdom!

You say or mentioned that there is "only one truth" and you are correct! Thus when it comes to various religious teachings and doctrines, it is not any man, but God, who is the judge of what is true worship. I feel the same way as the Bible writer who said: “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.”—Romans 3:3, 4.

The truth will not allow for all the different kinds of religious doctrine in the world. For example, either humans have a soul that survives the death of the body or they do not. Either the earth will last forever or it will not. Either God will bring wickedness to an end or he will not. These and many other beliefs are either right or wrong. There cannot be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other. One or the other is true, but not both. Sincerely believing something, and practicing that belief, will not make it right if it really is wrong.

 

[Siro]

Sincerely believing something, and practicing that belief, will not make it right if it really is wrong.

You understand this and yet you continue to believe such simple minded drivel based on nothing but blind faith? How?!

 

[carolinajazz]

I have a feeling that we'd better brace ourselves for a cut and paste nightmare.

...not that bad, is it?

 

[carolinajazz]

"simple minded drivel"?

Would you like to get "blown out of the water" too? You pick the subject!

 

[Siro]

Would you like to get "blown out of the water" too? You pick the subject!

Any subject you like, as long as you're not one of the judges. You know, since you would literally be the only person on Earth who thought he'd won that debate.

 

[Red]

I appreciate your observations and viewpoints and it's true....on these boards we sometimes get obsessed with "blowing each other out of the water!" That being said, it seems to me that your viewpoint and opinion on some of these matters being discussed is based on Mr. Meister Eckhart, a German theologian, philosopher and mystic, thus feeling his words of "wisdom" are superior to that of my quotes and use of the Bible! If that's who you want to follow and use as an authority then so be it! But my use of the Bible Canon, is, in fact, the real "truth" on these matters, since it is the product of, not human wisdom but Divine wisdom!

You say or mentioned that there is "only one truth" and you are correct! Thus when it comes to various religious teachings and doctrines, it is not any man, but God, who is the judge of what is true worship. I feel the same way as the Bible writer who said: “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.”—Romans 3:3, 4.

The truth will not allow for all the different kinds of religious doctrine in the world. For example, either humans have a soul that survives the death of the body or they do not. Either the earth will last forever or it will not. Either God will bring wickedness to an end or he will not. These and many other beliefs are either right or wrong. There cannot be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other. One or the other is true, but not both. Sincerely believing something, and practicing that belief, will not make it right if it really is wrong.

I'm always surprised when you start off with a reasonable tone, lol. But I appreciate it.


For myself, this all develops from your proclamation that yoga was dangerous, originating in sorcery. Since I already understood that the inner traditions of the world's major faiths all have institutions that allow individuals compelled to seek a closer relationship with that which men call God, the means to facilitate that quest, and that meditative techniques are a part of each faiths inner tradition designed to aid in that facilitation, then you should understand that as well, and therefore realize your proclamation dismissing yoga is based on ignorance on your part.

Eckhart is simply a superb example to illustrate an individual who had the ability to put in very few words a description of the unitive state that is both the goal of the Christian contemplative and the goal of yoga when utilized to facilitate quieting the mind, etc, in pursuit of that state. I'm not saying Eckhart is a piece of cake to understand. Ultimately words will always fail to describe these states attained through spiritual practice, but for those who have ears to hear:

“The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.”


Consider this description of yoga:

"The most important teaching of yoga has to do with our nature as human beings. It states that our "true nature" goes far beyond the limits of the human mind and personality--that instead, our human potential is infinite and transcends our individual minds and our sense of self. The very word "yoga" makes reference to this. The root, "yuj" (meaning "unity" or "yoke"), indicates that the purpose of yoga is to unite ourselves with our highest nature. This re-integration is accomplished through the practices of the various yoga disciplines. Until this re-integration takes place, we identify ourselves with our limitations--the limitations of the body, mind, and senses. Thus we feel incomplete and limited, and are subject to feelings of sorrow, insecurity, fear, and separation, because we have separated ourselves from the experience of the whole."

From: https://www.swamij.com/yoga-meaning.htm

In the quote above, Eckhart is describing that experience of "the whole". The goal of yoga, the goal of Christian contemplative practice is absolutely identical. Yoga=yoke=unity. Exactly what Eckhart describes above, as best as words allow him to describe that which cannot truly be put in words.

The very word yoga itself denotes yoke, unity. Yoga is not a religion. But it can be utilized by those seeking a closer relationship with a power higher then themselves. Again, for some, that may seem more a mental illness then a valid way to orient one's entire life, but some people are so compelled to walk these paths. And you will find such people in all faiths. There's a reason Eckhart says the mystics of all times and place speak the same language. The truth they experience is the same. And really, for the very reason you state. There can only be one Truth.

All this was simply in response to your ignorant proclamation that yoga could be dismissed as dangerous and akin to sorcery. I was not suggesting here that Eckhart is a greater truth then your truth. I'm reasonably sure the man utilized the Bible in his sermons, after all. I'm sure he found solace there, as you do.

But, you do speak from the position of a Christian ideologue. Ultimately, you're going to claim that the only true religion is Christianity. So it can't be a surprise that you all but condemn yoga. I decided to attempt to point out that you do so out of ignorance. You decided it was dangerous, and then went in search of quotes by others that would support your claim. It's called cherry picking. You do it frequently, because your mind is made up and you are spared the task of actually thinking.

The fact is that people who walk these paths, whether in the East or the West, do walk a dangerous path. One only has to read St. John of the Cross's "The Dark Night of the Soul" to see it is certainly not for anyone, and it takes tremendous courage. To truly let go of one's self can be a terrifying thing. Losing the self can seem akin to death. I spent years of my life reading the works of the great mystics of all faiths. It was part of the journey I took as I emerged from atheism. And yet, somehow, I'm still not sure any god exists at all.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I appreciate your observations and viewpoints and it's true....on these boards we sometimes get obsessed with "blowing each other out of the water!" That being said, it seems to me that your viewpoint and opinion on some of these matters being discussed is based on Mr. Meister Eckhart, a German theologian, philosopher and mystic, thus feeling his words of "wisdom" are superior to that of my quotes and use of the Bible! If that's who you want to follow and use as an authority then so be it! But my use of the Bible Canon, is, in fact, the real "truth" on these matters, since it is the product of, not human wisdom but Divine wisdom!

You say or mentioned that there is "only one truth" and you are correct! Thus when it comes to various religious teachings and doctrines, it is not any man, but God, who is the judge of what is true worship. I feel the same way as the Bible writer who said: “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar.”—Romans 3:3, 4.

The truth will not allow for all the different kinds of religious doctrine in the world. For example, either humans have a soul that survives the death of the body or they do not. Either the earth will last forever or it will not. Either God will bring wickedness to an end or he will not. These and many other beliefs are either right or wrong. There cannot be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other. One or the other is true, but not both. Sincerely believing something, and practicing that belief, will not make it right if it really is wrong.

For centuries, based on the book that you are so certain is the one truth, Christianity taught that the earth was the center of the universe and that the world was flat. How did that turn out? Was your truth proven false, or did religion simply discover a new way to interpret the gobbeldy goop wording of the Bible?

It appears to me that you and ISIS extremists have something in common. You both value your particular interpretations of ancient writings (which have gone through multiple translations and revisions at the hands of people who had plenty to gain by manipulating what those words say) more than any actual evidence.

 

[carolinajazz]

Any subject you like, as long as you're not one of the judges. You know, since you would literally be the only person on Earth who thought he'd won that debate.

Well, to win a debate, provable facts of truth and provable facts of science must be used. So to have a person "judge" who won or who lost would be next to impossible, since you would want "judges" who accept neither! Of course, winning a debate on any subject would be predicated on the judges being "fair" "impartial" and "unbiased". Picking out such ones on this board would be impossible! Your retort would be "since it's a debate....whatever judges are used will suffice". Not true! I do remember debating in High School the subject of the benefit and usefulness of the "United Nations" as a peace keeping organization. I was up against just one individual and the "class" had to judge or vote who won. I argued that the UN could NEVER be a true source of peace and security. I won that one hands down!

Actually, on this board I've broken a very important "rule" from my source of truth on numerous occasions! 1 Timothy 6:4 points out not to be . . ."obsessed with arguments and debates about words"...because "they give rise to envy, strife" etc. That being said, it was just too tempting not to chime in on some topics that have been raised by offering an alternative observation based on truth and facts.....not conjecture, assumption and theory!

By the way, what do you think the chances are that the Jazz make the playoffs this year?

 

[carolinajazz]

For centuries, based on the book that you are so certain is the one truth, Christianity taught that the earth was the center of the universe and that the world was flat. How did that turn out? Was your truth proven false, or did religion simply discover a new way to interpret the gobbeldy goop wording of the Bible?

Hey donuts...hold on to your horse, there! It seems to me that you are just "parroting" or repeating something someone told you about in connection with what they THOUGHT the Bible actually says, rather than checking it out for yourself! So let me correct you in a kind and mild way with some simple copy and paste material!

The Encyclopedia Americana said: “The earliest known image that men had of the earth was that it was a flat, rigid platform at the center of the universe. .*.*. The concept of a spherical earth was not widely accepted until the Renaissance.” Some early navigators even feared that they might sail off the edge of the flat earth. But then the introduction of the compass and other advancements made possible longer ocean voyages. These “voyages of discovery,” another encyclopedia explains, “showed that the world was round, not flat as most people had believed.”

Yet, long before such voyages, about 2,700 years ago, the Bible said: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) The Hebrew word here translated “circle” can also mean “sphere,” as various reference works note. Other Bible translations, therefore, say, “the globe of the earth” (Douay Version) and, “the round earth.”—Moffatt.

Thus, the Bible was not influenced by the unscientific views prevalent at the time regarding the earth’s support and its shape. The reason is simple: The Author of the Bible is the Author of the universe. He created the earth, so he should know what it hangs on and what its shape is. Hence, when he inspired the Bible, he saw to it that no unscientific views were incorporated in it, however much they may have been believed by others at the time.

And then we have THIS as well: When the Bible was being written, there was speculation regarding how the earth was held in space. Some, for example, believed that the earth was supported by four elephants standing on a big sea turtle. Yet rather than reflect the fanciful, unscientific views existing at its time of writing, the Bible simply stated: “[God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) Yes, over 3,000 years ago the Bible correctly noted that the earth has no visible support, a fact that is in harmony with the more recently understood laws of gravity and motion. “How Job knew the truth,” observed one religious scholar, “is a question not easily solved by those who deny the inspiration of Holy Scripture.”

I am waiting to accept your apology, thank you very much!