150 Terrorists invade Oregon

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Let's start of by saying they absolutely have a good cause. In fact there are polls show that people are sympathetic to their cause but not their group. There are very real problems that need to be fixed. Deadly ones.

But they are very aggressive in tone and the average American often is directly inconvenienced by this. They block traffic, block store access, crash political rallies and shut down any voice but their own...

They have even targeted potential powerful allies in their cause. Such as Bernie Sanders. Now one can argue that "inconveniencing" the average American is a small price for the public to pay when people are dying. Fair enough. But it does their cause no favors. They should be pushing tactics that expand their supporting base. Once you have broad local bases of support you form a council and engage city and county governments. That is a much more effective way to create change than what they are doing.

For example. Change it from #BlackLivesMatter to #AllLivesMatter. It brings in more Latinos, whites and Asians and furthers the challenging of systemic racism that contribute to these police deaths that sparked this movement. Fliers full of info at colleges, fairs, malls... You will not achieve your goals by alienating people. Do a much better job engaging the media in a positive way. Control, to an extent, the tone of your coverage. Push for more positive pieces based off your improved tone and approach.

My comparison between the two groups was only to show that they both use tactics that turn people against them. Not in any attempt to link their goals, membership, worthiness of cause or anything else. On my phone. This will have to do.

Excellent post. IMO, #alllivesmatter. I don't believe you can solve these sorts of problems by embracing victimhood or creating divisiveness. It's much better to send the message that we care about our lives, and we care about your life too.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

SMH, sadly Stoked, this line of thinking is part of the problem. I know you're not doing it on purpose, but BLM has absolutely nothing to do with Latino, Asian, and White lives, at all.

"Average Americans" aka white people should not be telling black people how to run their movement and frame their message. They are not protesting on our terms, and to ask them to do so is disingenuous, belittling, and racist at worst. Again, I know you mean well, but I would encourage you to try see this issue through other lenses.

Does this also mean that you believe that white people like George Soros should not be funding this group? He's pumped in at least $30 million so far. Why do you think he's doing that?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

This is generally the argument against #alllivesmatter

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

This is generally the argument against #alllivesmatter

Funny, but flawed. What would Martin Luther King Jr. choose to name this organization?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Funny, but flawed. What would Martin Luther King Jr. choose to name this organization?

How would I know that? He didn't live in an era of social media.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

How would I know that? He didn't live in an era of social media.

Oh, so the presence of a hashtag causes this to be confusing to you? Would he pick an inclusive name or one that defines his group by their separation from the whole?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Oh, so the presence of a hashtag causes this to be confusing to you? Would he pick an inclusive name or one that defines his group by their separation from the whole?

Given what he'd want to bring attention to in this case, probably the latter.

 

[Stoked]

SMH, sadly Stoked, this line of thinking is part of the problem. I know you're not doing it on purpose, but BLM has absolutely nothing to do with Latino, Asian, and White lives, at all.

"Average Americans" aka white people should not be telling black people how to run their movement and frame their message. They are not protesting on our terms, and to ask them to do so is disingenuous, belittling, and racist at worst. Again, I know you mean well, but I would encourage you to try see this issue through other lenses.

Some strong disagreements. Especially the AKA white Americans. I'd didn't say that so don't imply it.

But I wasn't trying to debate BLM.

 

[babe]

Which begs the question, just who is giving this bigot positive reps and why?

I routinely pos rep everybody when I have rep to pass out. I'm the sort of person who really believes in being inclusive and accepting people who are different. The more the differences, the more I tend to encourage their participation.

Everybody's welcome at my house, even you.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Does this also mean that you believe that white people like George Soros should not be funding this group? He's pumped in at least $30 million so far. Why do you think he's doing that?

No, I don't have any problem with white people supporting their cause. I do have an issue with white people telling black people how to feel, protest, and conduct themselves. Why are you so angry that black people are not protesting the way you want them to?

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Some strong disagreements. Especially the AKA white Americans. I'd didn't say that so don't imply it.

But I wasn't trying to debate BLM.

I know, I said it. It's my interpretation of what you said. Prove to the contrary, but don't tell me what to imply and what not to imply. I will not be censored. Thanks.


You continued the BLM conversation here, and I disagree with you.

 

[franklin]

You have evaded every last fact that we're facing up to now. It doesn't matter which direction we argue, the second you get cornered or called out on anything, you take the opposite.

Fact; these juvenile delinquents are trespassing
Fact; these juvenile delinquents are disrupting the daily lives of the residents of Burns, OR
Fact; The Hammond family do not want to be any part of this
Fact; these juvenile delinquents do not have a legal leg to stand on
Fact; We, the people, have allowed these juvenile delinquents more than enough time, and media attention, to express their point and try to gather followers

They have sent their message. They have had enough time to realize the public does not support them. Hell, the public is sending them bags of gummy wangs, "marital aids", and a 55 gallon drum of lube. Gasing the refuge is the least violent option for removing these juvenile delinquents. Incarceration is just plain fair at this point.

You don't want to talk credibility here. As the second largest conspiracy theorist on the board, only Thriller has less than you.

Mods, please give the residents of residents of Burns, OR an ignore feature.

 

[franklin]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/4...ge-held-by-armed-group/ar-BBoe5ST?ocid=HPCDHP

"Thousands of archaeological artifacts — and maps detailing where more can be found — are kept inside the national wildlife refuge buildings currently being held by an armed group of protestors angry over federal land policy.

I knew it. Dr. Joneses Bundy connection is behind this. He's clearly paying them to smuggle this stuff out for his own purposes.

 

[babe]

I know, I said it. It's my interpretation of what you said. Prove to the contrary, but don't tell me what to imply and what not to imply. I will not be censored. Thanks.


You continued the BLM conversation here, and I disagree with you.

All speech is some kind of shorthand symbolism for meaning. What, you want a book? Maybe I should do an extended treatise for you that will satisfy every detail of good manners or political correctness.

Or how about you just let a few things slide, and not like just have to tell stoked what to imply or not imply and so censor him form implicitly censoring you. Stoked usually tries to be considerate of everyone, but to be perfect at it has a price in wordiness. . . . shall I go on? and on???

What we have going on in this country if not the world is an ideological battle, a sort of push and shove for King of the Hill towards controlling the rhetoric and forcing our way to some ideological nirvana. fantasy stuff, imo. People should be respected in their differences, ya know.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

All speech is some kind of shorthand symbolism for meaning. What, you want a book? Maybe I should do an extended treatise for you that will satisfy every detail of good manners or political correctness.

Or how about you just let a few things slide, and not like just have to tell stoked what to imply or not imply and so censor him form implicitly censoring you. Stoked usually tries to be considerate of everyone, but to be perfect at it has a price in wordiness. . . . shall I go on? and on???

What we have going on in this country if not the world is an ideological battle, a sort of push and shove for King of the Hill towards controlling the rhetoric and forcing our way to some ideological nirvana. fantasy stuff, imo. People should be respected in their differences, ya know.

Agreed! I thought my critique of Stoked was polite, and it was answered with some aggression and I responded in kind. We reap what we sow, ya know.

 

[Stoked]

I know, I said it. It's my interpretation of what you said. Prove to the contrary, but don't tell me what to imply and what not to imply. I will not be censored. Thanks.


You continued the BLM conversation here, and I disagree with you.

Nor will I allow you to put your ******** interpretations on me. You want to think I mean white people fine. You're dead wrong but don't let that ruin your narrative.

Also saying since I didn't say it so don't imply it isnt aggression.

 

[Stoked]

All speech is some kind of shorthand symbolism for meaning. What, you want a book? Maybe I should do an extended treatise for you that will satisfy every detail of good manners or political correctness.

Or how about you just let a few things slide, and not like just have to tell stoked what to imply or not imply and so censor him form implicitly censoring you. Stoked usually tries to be considerate of everyone, but to be perfect at it has a price in wordiness. . . . shall I go on? and on???

What we have going on in this country if not the world is an ideological battle, a sort of push and shove for King of the Hill towards controlling the rhetoric and forcing our way to some ideological nirvana. fantasy stuff, imo. People should be respected in their differences, ya know.

I do try. I'm human so I fail but I really do try to look at all sides to an issue. Or at least as many as I can relate to.

But I don't have much tolerance for people Spinning my meaning. I speak plainly and don't have much use for hidden meaning. If someone thinks I might mean something other than what I said than ask me.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Funny, but flawed. What would Martin Luther King Jr. choose to name this organization?

LOL, is this a new standard/catch prhase: WWMLKD--What would Martin Luther King Do? If so, I imagine it will be used as cynically as WWJD.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Let's start of by saying they absolutely have a good cause. In fact there are polls show that people are sympathetic to their cause but not their group. There are very real problems that need to be fixed. Deadly ones.

But they are very aggressive in tone and the average American often is directly inconvenienced by this. They block traffic, block store access, crash political rallies and shut down any voice but their own...

They have even targeted potential powerful allies in their cause. Such as Bernie Sanders. Now one can argue that "inconveniencing" the average American is a small price for the public to pay when people are dying. Fair enough. But it does their cause no favors. They should be pushing tactics that expand their supporting base. Once you have broad local bases of support you form a council and engage city and county governments. That is a much more effective way to create change than what they are doing.

For example. Change it from #BlackLivesMatter to #AllLivesMatter. It brings in more Latinos, whites and Asians and furthers the challenging of systemic racism that contribute to these police deaths that sparked this movement. Fliers full of info at colleges, fairs, malls... You will not achieve your goals by alienating people. Do a much better job engaging the media in a positive way. Control, to an extent, the tone of your coverage. Push for more positive pieces based off your improved tone and approach.

My comparison between the two groups was only to show that they both use tactics that turn people against them. Not in any attempt to link their goals, membership, worthiness of cause or anything else. On my phone. This will have to do.

Ok, fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Excellent post. IMO, #alllivesmatter. I don't believe you can solve these sorts of problems by embracing victimhood or creating divisiveness. It's much better to send the message that we care about our lives, and we care about your life too.

LOL, so instead of gay rights, it should be "all socially marginalized groups rights?" Or instead of women's rights, it should be "all persons historically oppressed by men rights?" So, advocates of undocumented workers should expand their cause to include all other groups fighting for acceptance and rights in US society? Advocates for battered women are doing wrong by not also advocating for all other physically abused persons? Advocates fighting against child pornography should expand their scope to include all victims of sexual abuse? Advocates for saving the whales must now likewise advocate for all other species threatened by humans?

I'm sorry but insisting on Alllivesmatter, instead of Blacklivessmatter strikes me as, whether intentionally, an attempt to delegitimize or downplay the very legitimate, historical and ongoing issues with race and racism that black people face. Why not allow them to choose their own cause and fight for it (just like you do every other advocacy group)on their own terms without trying to dictate to them the causes for which they should advocate and how they should go about doing it? What is it about Blacklivesmatter that makes so many people want to dictate the scope and terms of their advocacy, when they don't do so for the many hundreds of other special interest advocacy groups?

Edited to add, blacks are victims, historically and presently. It is not embracing victimhood, any more than battered women are embracing victimhood in advocating for social and legal change protecting their rights and lives.

White men, protestants, other traditionally powerful groups, now that IS victimhood when they whine and cry about all of the horrible injustices society has burdened them with.