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BYU - it's time come out of the dark ages.

What would be the problem with putting a wall between rape investigations and the honor code office? Don't provide a free pass for honor code violations, just don't use rape investigations as a way to funnel honor code violations to those who enforce the honor code.
 
Sorry, just one more comment. In thinking about this more, a large number of rapes in universities are obviously drug & alcohol related. So the real question that you should be asking (green) if the goal to minimize rapes is the paramount consideration, is how do the reduced number of rapes that come from having a culture that doesn't tolerate drug & alcohol use compare to the possibly elevated number of rapes that occur due to the possible unreporting of rapes by students who are afraid of getting kicked out of school if they were raped in a situation where they were acting against the school's rules. And I'd bet that the former VASTLY outweighs the latter. So I'm going to ask you, green, how can you possibly consider sending your daughter to a university that DOESN'T have a zero tolerance policy of drug & alcohol use??
 
Gameface said:
What would be the problem with putting a wall between rape investigations and the honor code office? Don't provide a free pass for honor code violations, just don't use rape investigations as a way to funnel honor code violations to those who enforce the honor code.
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Yes, that seems like a reasonable proposal to consider.
 
colton said:
And I have far fewer qualms about her safety than if she were at just about any other university in the county.
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This.

Let's say that greens culture of fear title at byu is true. I still believe that less women are getting raped at byu in the first place than almost all other schools.
 
green said:
What? So, you are ok with the culture of fear at BYU that allows a rapist to free?

I believe you are better than that.
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Is there really a culture of fear at byu to report rapes or was this particular girl scared to report it?

Is byu known for allowing rapists to rape women without repercussions when they are reported?
 
Gameface said:
What would be the problem with putting a wall between rape investigations and the honor code office? Don't provide a free pass for honor code violations, just don't use rape investigations as a way to funnel honor code violations to those who enforce the honor code.
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Great idea.
 
Lol at greens culture of fear and byu letting rapists run free.

First utes are afraid of byu athlete thug life tough guys hurting all their players... Now utes are afraid of all the rapists running free at byu and raping their daughters!
Oh green, you are the funniest.
 
JimLes said:
There's a culture of ignoring and downplaying sexual assault accusations at every single university in North America.
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Probably right.

I don't call that a culture of fear or think that means that when a rape is reported there are no repercussions for the rapist though
 
Madeline MacDonald, who also agreed to the use of her name by The Tribune, said she made a Title IX sexual assault report in 2014. She said a blind date took her to a mountain in Orem, forced her clothes off, pinned her into the cab of his pickup and groped her while she told him to stop.

"I wasn't drunk, I'd never had previous consensual sex with this guy, there were no drugs involved, and he wasn't in my apartment at all," she said.

MacDonald said she turned to the Women's Services and Resources office, where staff instructed her to file a complaint with the Title IX office. During the subsequent investigation, MacDonald said, Westerberg told her that her case was being forwarded to the Honor Code Office.

"She was telling me at BYU people falsely report rapes because the Honor Code Office is so strict on premarital sex, and people report rapes so they won't get investigated," MacDonald said.
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Where is the drugs and alcohol here Colton?

I'm shocked that people are so willing to look the other way on this. It's disgusting.
 
"Emily" was on a date in July 2015 with a student from another school when he began fondling her as she fought back and told him to stop, she said. According to a rape charge pending in 4th District Court, police wrote that they also found bite marks on Emily's body.

Emily asked to use a pseudonym because her attacker has threatened her.

In January, the man followed Emily to a campus building where she works as a janitor and hid in a bathroom; he jumped out, pinned her to a wall and threatened to kill her, according to a subsequent kidnapping and witness retaliation charge.

BYU police do not refer criminal investigations to the Honor Code Office, said Lt. Arnold Lemmon.

"We're not out there digging up dirt on students and shipping it to the Honor Code Office," he said.

But officers are required to notify victims of their options under Title IX. The detective over Emily's second attack told her that the Title IX office could connect her to services.

Instead, Emily said, the office opened an Honor Code investigation into her conduct.

"[Westerberg] said ... that's part of the policy: Any time a sexual assault is reported, they have to send it to the Honor Code Office," Emily recalled. "She said that her hands were tied by the policy. ... I asked her, 'I don't understand what you're saying.' She said, 'We have an Honor Code policy at BYU and we don't apologize for that.'

"That killed me, because I've never broken the Honor Code, ever, and here it was being used to say it was my fault, what had happened to me," Emily said.
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You guys should really read the article before posting.

The way BYU treated this woman is appalling.
 
when victims of sexual violence at BYU report their attack, they potentially put their academic future at risk. If you’ve been raped while in your boyfriend’s bedroom, you’re in trouble. If you were drinking at a party and were raped, you’re in trouble. If you were fondling a partner who then raped you, you’re in trouble. There are many more Honor Code rules which may apply. The trouble is both ecclesiastical and academic. The Honor Code Office will report to and coordinate with the bishop of the student. A woman who has been sexually assaulted may find herself penalized, suspended, even expelled for the circumstances of her attack.
The problems with this approach are clear. These rules discourage the reporting of sexual abuse and shield the perpetrators. Victims are shamed into silence. In their very moment of spiritual and physical pain, the Honor Code serves to heap additional guilt upon their heads. They are perhaps left with the implication that they deserved their attack. And if nothing is reported, the greater sin of sexual violence goes unpunished. The veneer of righteousness presented by the Honor Code is preserved and the sepulchre is kept white.
I would welcome further explanation from BYU administration. I hope that I am wrong. I attended BYU, love BYU and support its aims. But to say that this approach is not the right one is an understatement. It would be a sinful, repugnant way to approach victims of sexual abuse. I call upon BYU to provide some explanation and to shield victims in their reporting and healing.
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https://bycommonconsent.com/2016/04/09/the-least-degree-of-allowance/
 
This isn't a BYU vs Utah thing. This is about a culture of fear that has lead to over 90% of rapes not being reported.

That means that 9 out of 10 guys who sexually assault women go free in Utah County.

We can be better than that.
 
JimLes said:
BYU is batsh*t crazy like anything having to do with religion, but what I don't understand is why people who disagree with the Honour Code go there? I mean, if you're not as batsh*t crazy as them, wouldn't you go to a normal, secular school?
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Banshee crazy does no justice to this insane policy. Most LDS people refuse to allow there children into the very school there tithing dollars is subsidizing. BYU is trying to make Amish peoples out of returned missionaries. when most you're population refuses to allow there children into The religious institutions you know you have a problem.
 
green said:
BYU fans make jokes when reality is much worse. This isn't a joke at all. This isn't me hating BYU. This is a problem.
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green said:
Look at this thread.
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green said:
Where is the drugs and alcohol here Colton?

I'm shocked that people are so willing to look the other way on this. It's disgusting.
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green said:
You guys should really read the article before posting.

The way BYU treated this woman is appalling.
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green said:
This isn't a BYU vs Utah thing. This is about a culture of fear that has lead to over 90% of rapes not being reported.

That means that 9 out of 10 guys who sexually assault women go free in Utah County.

We can be better than that.
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Look green I agree that the honor code sucks. I agree that there are some women that are not reporting rapes because they fear of being punished for honor code violations and that is wrong. But when you say things like byu has a culture of fear and byu let's rapists go free then you are making it sound like if I were to go to byu's campus tomorrow afternoon there would be scared women everywhere and rapists around every corner.

I wonder if you realize that there are tons of men that attend byu that don't even rape women. There are lots of women that attend byu that are not getting raped each day.

If you stumbled upon this article and it was about the university of Oregon you would have thought to yourself that what oregon was doing is wrong and you hope that they change their ways and then you would have moved on without making a thread about it.

I think this article gives you a great platform to bash byu and you are going to take every opportunity to do so. You will always flaunt any and every bad bit of press you can find about byu. That won't ever change.
 
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