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Following 2016 potential draftees

Cunning Linguist said:
I think I'm leaning toward Korky. Three-point shooting trumps everything else in this damn league it seems. Dubs were best in the league and had the best record. Spurs had the second best % and had the second best record...so damn important nowadays.

Here's the flipside to that coin though. How many teams win it all without a great wing defender. Lebron is one. Kawhi. When the Mavs won, they had a few really good guys they threw at Lebron including Deshawn. The Pistons had Prince. The Celts had Posey and Pierce. Do we have anyone that could be very, very, very good like this defensively? I don't have faith that Hayward will be or can be. So maybe this is more important and we draft Luwawu who could always become a solid shooter too. Heck, Hood and Lyles could become elite shooters...

Yep, Luwawu it is.
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The Jazz problem are not at the defense. A healthy Jazz team would have been a top 5 defensive team for sure!I agree with you that the Jazz dont have great perimeter defenders but they compensate it with an elite team defense. The problem for the jazz are on the offense so thats why i would prefer Korkmaz over Luwawu if they are both available. People are forgetting Dante Exums as a perimeter defender...
 
berat_36 said:
The Jazz problem are not at the defense. A healthy Jazz team would have been a top 5 defensive team for sure!I agree with you that the Jazz dont have great perimeter defenders but they compensate it with an elite team defense. The problem for the jazz are on the offense so thats why i would prefer Korkmaz over Luwawu if they are both available. People are forgetting Dante Exums as a perimeter defender...
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True.
 
stitches said:
Yes, because depth is the thing that we miss at the PG. Exum, Neto, Burke, Mack, Jackson... give us more PGs... especially small ones to be our 3d PG... those are the ones we need the most.
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Yet I still don't know if we even have one starting caliber nba point guard on our roster.

I'm perfectly fine with drafting a point guard.

If it turns out that exum is a bad *** and the point guard we draft is really good too then you can play then together.
 
berat_36 said:
The Jazz problem are not at the defense. A healthy Jazz team would have been a top 5 defensive team for sure!I agree with you that the Jazz dont have great perimeter defenders but they compensate it with an elite team defense. The problem for the jazz are on the offense so thats why i would prefer Korkmaz over Luwawu if they are both available. People are forgetting Dante Exums as a perimeter defender...
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Basketball isn't Football though. If you play a guy he has to play both defense and offense, so any addition of a bad defender will potentially make you a worse defensive team.

Is it more important to forget your identity or strengthen it? It's not like Luwawu is an offensive bum either. I'd rather have a guy with elite tools defensively who can play offense than a good offensive player with a bad defensive history and tools.
 
King Cy said:
Basketball isn't Football though. If you play a guy he has to play both defense and offense, so any addition of a bad defender will potentially make you a worse defensive team.

Is it more important to forget your identity or strengthen it? It's not like Luwawu is an offensive bum either. I'd rather have a guy with elite tools defensively who can play offense than a good offensive player with a bad defensive history and tools.
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This. I'm curious to see Luwawu's measurements... If he has the wingspan reported with as athletic as he is he could be a huge get. Also shoots it well enough and could improve. I'm not so sure he isn't the better player both offensively and defensively. I do think he ends up top ten when all is said and done though.

I have only watched the DX video on Korkmaz but his jumper seems to take a little time to get off... He can improve but I'm not so sure his jumper is NBA ready either. Much rather have luwawu... We still need a lock down wing defender.
 
spycam1 said:
If that's who the Jazz pick, then I'd be good with it. I'd be more confident in Ellenson though.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
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No thanks on Ellenson.

How many teams do we see that do really well with big men who aren't very good defenders, or have the tools to be good defenders? Perimeter defense and shooting, I think that's what we need to focus on. And forget Korks, dude can't/doesn't defend. Shooters that don't play defense are worthless on a good team. I read a really good article a while back discussing this, I'll see if I can find it back.
 
King Cy said:
Basketball isn't Football though. If you play a guy he has to play both defense and offense, so any addition of a bad defender will potentially make you a worse defensive team.

Is it more important to forget your identity or strengthen it? It's not like Luwawu is an offensive bum either. I'd rather have a guy with elite tools defensively who can play offense than a good offensive player with a bad defensive history and tools.
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So if you could have Evan Fornier, you wouldn't want him?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This. I'm curious to see Luwawu's measurements... If he has the wingspan reported with as athletic as he is he could be a huge get. Also shoots it well enough and could improve. I'm not so sure he isn't the better player both offensively and defensively. I do think he ends up top ten when all is said and done though.

I have only watched the DX video on Korkmaz but his jumper seems to take a little time to get off... He can improve but I'm not so sure his jumper is NBA ready either. Much rather have luwawu... We still need a lock down wing defender.
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So we need more defense and less offense? Seems like scoring down the stretch was a big issue this season.
 
Some interesting thoughts on the value of the combine:

So what numbers can we use to predict NBA success? A 2014 study conducted by psychologists Jerad Moxley and Tyler Towne tried to answer that question by reviewing the performances of over 300 NBA Combine invitees from 2001-06. The researchers were interested in whether performance in the NBA is predicted by physical makeup and athleticism while factoring in prior basketball performance. To test the theory that physical size and athleticism are markers of yet to be realized potential, the researchers investigated a number of variables, including age, college performance, player position, college quality, height, agility, no-step vertical leap, arm span, and weight.

From there the researchers tried to predict success in the first three years of NBA performance, a critical period in a young player’s career. The results? Even though physical size and athleticism predicted draft order, the only variables that predicted NBA success were college quality, college performance, and youth.

The study concludes, “To clarify, our argument is that these physical characteristics have already contributed to achievement and training opportunities by the time the player reaches the NBA and thus does not differentiate player class at the professional level.”

The bottom line: if possessing those skills and physical size made a player effective in college, then he was more likely to be productive at the next level. Simply possessing great athleticism—the idea of "upside"—without a prior record of performance wasn’t good enough.

“People are looking for something that hasn’t yet been captured by college performance, but the Combine doesn’t measure anything that adds that predictive value,” says Tyler Towne, one of the authors of the study. "We need to get away from measuring general athletic abilities and instead use more specific tests of actual basketball skill.”

It isn’t so much that the tests don’t adequately assess general athleticism. They do. The question is, are the skills measured at the Combine the most relevant for the NBA—for example, is a point guard’s vertical jump relevant for success at his position. “It’s difficult to use athleticism as a gauge since what makes one player great may not be what makes another successful,” emphasizes Wagner.

Those with experience of the combine agree that the value of the event may not lie with the athletic skills portion, rather with the anthropometrics and mental makeup of the athletes. “The general anthropometric [height, weight, standing reach, wingspan] information is some of the most valuable information to come out of the Combine,” says JoHan Wang, a former athletic trainer and strength and conditioning coach for the Warriors and Clippers.

Wang believes that we are still learning how to use the emerging field of sports science and good teams know how to effectively analyze data from the Combine. “Blending the physical information into an overall profile can shed light on a player’s skill set and potential," he says.

This information gives teams a glimpse into a player’s versatility, especially as a defender. Wang uses the example of Draymond Green, a player that he worked with at the Warriors. At 6’7” he can play much bigger because of his large wingspan and reach—Green's 8’10" standing reach was greater than fellow 2011 Combine participants Drew Gordon, Miles Plumlee, Harrison Barnes and Tyler Zeller, who are all taller than Green.

So while all of those players also outperformed Green’s numbers in the vertical jump, Wang asserts that work ethic and drive—two traits that aren't measured at the Combine—give Green an edge over other players.

“Figuring out which players have those personality traits—through the interviews, personality tests and sports psychologists—may be the real useful part of the Combine,” Wang says. “In fact, character and work ethic have become increasingly more important to NBA teams in the last 10 years.”
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https://www.si.com/edge/2016/05/11/nba-draft-combine-results-measurements-vertical-jump-value

In other words, the key characteristics to look for in a prospect are: "college quality," "college performance," "youth," "work ethic," and "drive."

To me, this clearly puts Ellenson above Skal as one example of how to apply the information from their study. Skal might have the tools to be successful, but since it didn't lead to success in college, it's unlikely that it will lead to success in the NBA. His mental makeup is soft (just ask Dr. Jones). Of the five key characteristics the study identifies, Skal only checks two boxes: college quality and youth; he seems to scream fool's gold.
 
Ellison screams a More al around version of Channing Frye.. Role player. pick and pop guy.. That is not a top 10 pick,imo. Got to do better then a role player if your drafting top 10
 
spycam1 said:
Some interesting thoughts on the value of the combine:



https://www.si.com/edge/2016/05/11/nba-draft-combine-results-measurements-vertical-jump-value

In other words, the key characteristics to look for in a prospect are: "college quality," "college performance," "youth," "work ethic," and "drive."

To me, this clearly puts Ellenson above Skal as one example of how to apply the information from their study. Skal might have the tools to be successful, but since it didn't lead to success in college, it's unlikely that it will lead to success in the NBA. His mental makeup is soft (just ask Dr. Jones). Of the five key characteristics the study identifies, Skal only checks two boxes: college quality and youth; he seems to scream fool's gold.
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I think Skal suffered from the Exum syndrome - no basketball or very low level of basketball prior to joining the team and struggling in the first year. Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk had very similar jump and struggled the same way. I personally think with all of them it's not as simple as looking at the stats when judging college performance. I don't know how they all rank on the "work ethic" and "drive" scale and I personally would draft them or not depending on those. If I believe Skal would bust his *** trying to improve, I'd take him @12. If not - it's big NO NO!
 
stitches said:
I think Skal suffered from the Exum syndrome - no basketball or very low level of basketball prior to joining the team and struggling in the first year. Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk had very similar jump and struggled the same way. I personally think with all of them it's not as simple as looking at the stats when judging college performance. I don't know how they all rank on the "work ethic" and "drive" scale and I personally would draft them or not depending on those. If I believe Skal would bust his *** trying to improve, I'd take him @12. If not - it's big NO NO!
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Dr. Jones has said repeatedly that Skal is insanely soft, and that he questions his love for the game and work ethic.

Not saying I'm 100% sure we should stay away from Skal, but there are definitely other players that will be available that I have more faith in.
 
ncoloradojazz said:
Ellison screams a More al around version of Channing Frye.. Role player. pick and pop guy.. That is not a top 10 pick,imo. Got to do better then a role player if your drafting top 10
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He's more physical and rebounds better than Frye. He can probably become a starter for some teams, but he might end up a 3rd big for better teams, a bit like Enes Kanter's role with OKC. If he's a solid stretch-shooter though, that's where he has upside.
 
spycam1 said:
Dr. Jones has said repeatedly that Skal is insanely soft, and that he questions his love for the game and work ethic.

Not saying I'm 100% sure we should stay away from Skal, but there are definitely other players that will be available that I have more faith in.
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I keep having PJ3 flashbacks.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This. I'm curious to see Luwawu's measurements... If he has the wingspan reported with as athletic as he is he could be a huge get. Also shoots it well enough and could improve. I'm not so sure he isn't the better player both offensively and defensively. I do think he ends up top ten when all is said and done though.

I have only watched the DX video on Korkmaz but his jumper seems to take a little time to get off... He can improve but I'm not so sure his jumper is NBA ready either. Much rather have luwawu... We still need a lock down wing defender.
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Eurocamp starts June 10. But no guarantee all these Europ prospects for this draft will be there. Serbian League games may even still be going on at that point.
 
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