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Following 2016 potential draftees

fishonjazz said:
I don't disagree with any of this. We have lots of good players. If we trade Hayward we will still have lots of good players except then we have lots of good players plus a very very high draft pick.
Then we can always try to replace Hayward with another good player in free agency.

The #3 pick + #12 pick + free agent (bazemore, batum, etc whatever) + burks hood exum lyles gobert favors all being healthier and more experienced would more than make up for Haywards production imo.
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You are assuming the 3rd pick is better than the #12, most GMs are saying that this is a two player draft. Wasn't Kanter a #3 pick and look at his draft and who was drafted around #12. I know most of the time #3 is a better player but not always.
 
I think Henry Ellenson should be getting talked about more. He's the same size as Karl Towns minus a couple inches of reach. He moves much better than Deytona Davis and has better face-up skills than Poeltl. His shooting, handling and passing out on the floor are pretty ideal for where the game seems to be headed. If he can work on his body and keep developing his skills, he could be an excellent piece of the puzzle. I actually have more faith in him translating than Skal, though I would be willing to roll the dice with Skal too.


[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=snIfYj4RLcQ
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Please don't take what I say out of context like I said. IMO Murray isn't a star could be wrong, but I don't see it.


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I didn't take what you said out of context.
You said that #3 pick won't get us a star.
I asked how do you know?

I guess your answer is that you don't know. You just don't think it will.
That's fine.

I don't know either. I do know that draft picks are the best and most common way to get a star so I think that getting more draft picks gives us more chances to get a star.

I also think that #3 pick + 12 pick + free agent + Exum burks hood Gobert favors and lyles all being healthier and more experienced would more than make up for Haywards production.
Do you agree with that?
 
cowhide said:
You are assuming the 3rd pick is better than the #12
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No I'm not. I have no idea.
I would say that the #3 pick is usually a better spot to be drafting in than the 12 spot though.
I think that having the #1 pick is the most preferable position, followed by 2 and then 3 and then 4 etc etc. But that's just me.

Besides, im not saying I would trade Hayward and 12 for 3. Just Hayward.
So we would still have #12.

Maybe we could use them both along with other picks to move up even more or get another early pick next year. Idk. I do know that the draft is the best and easiest way to get a star. I don't believe Hayward is a star. I believe having a star is preferable to not having one. I would try to get one. Therefore I would try to get a top pick to help increase the chances of getting a star.
 
fishonjazz said:
I didn't take what you said out of context.
You said that #3 pick won't get us a star.
I asked how do you know?

I also think that #3 pick + 12 pick + free agent + Exum burks hood Gobert favors and lyles all being healthier and more experienced would more than make up for Haywards production.
Do you agree with that?
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I felt I was quite clear that I don't view Murray as a star. Not sure why you'd ask that

Regarding your last part. Not sure if it was u or someone else that said we could sign Batum or Bazemore having the 3rd pick and 12th a done of those two more then making up for the loss of Hayward, but I don't see any of those guys or guys of their caliber wanting to sign here to come off the bench.


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Thee jazz fan said:
I felt I was quite clear that I don't view Murray as a star. Not sure why you'd ask that

Regarding your last part. Not sure if it was u or someone else that said we could sign Batum or Bazemore having the 3rd pick and 12th a done of those two more then making up for the loss of Hayward, but I don't see any of those guys or guys of their caliber wanting to sign here to come off the bench.


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If Hayward were not here then they would start imo
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Still doesn't get us a star, just recycling assets.

Either u didn't understand my post or didn't read me entirely too long windbag of a post, but basically u need to start over meaning not just trade Hayward but everyone. We aren't going to find a star by picking between 12-20. Or be patient and let the guys we have grow as a team seeing as we have the 4th youngest team in the league.


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Click to expand...

I missed this one.
Why would trading Hayward mean starting all over?

A line-up of
Exum
Hood
Bazemore
Favors
Gobert

With burks, Mack, lyles, jakob puertle (12 pick), murray/heild/chriss/dunn (#3 pick) makes the playoffs imo.

Plus tons of cap space and tons of future picks still.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Even so, if #3 flops or turns out to be just a decent role player starting or off the bench... Ouch!!


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Click to expand...

Kind of true but
A line-up of
Exum
Hood
Bazemore
Favors
Gobert

With burks, Mack, lyles, jakob puertle (12 pick), murray/heild/chriss/dunn (#3 pick) makes the playoffs imo.

Plus tons of cap space and tons of future picks still.
 
I think u only trade Hayward for a sure thing. Now if Hayward came out and publicly told the Jazz he won't resign then I am up for trading Hayward for a player and third pick.


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Catchall said:
I think Henry Ellenson should be getting talked about more. He's the same size as Karl Towns minus a couple inches of reach. He moves much better than Deytona Davis and has better face-up skills than Poeltl. His shooting, handling and passing out on the floor are pretty ideal for where the game seems to be headed. If he can work on his body and keep developing his skills, he could be an excellent piece of the puzzle. I actually have more faith in him translating than Skal, though I would be willing to roll the dice with Skal too.


[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=snIfYj4RLcQ
Click to expand...

I do like Ellenson's long term ability to shoot the ball. Skal and Sabonis can shoot it too though.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
I think u only trade Hayward for a sure thing. Now if Hayward came out and publicly told the Jazz he won't resign then I am up for trading Hayward for a player and third pick.


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Ok but answer this question. Does the below lineup/scenario make the playoffs and have a really really bright future?

Exum
Hood
Bazemore
Favors
Gobert

With burks, Mack, lyles, jakob puertle (12 pick), murray/heild/chriss/dunn (#3 pick)

Plus tons of cap space and tons of future picks still.

If the answer is yes, then maybe the risk of losing Hayward isn't even that big a deal anyway.

I say that roster looks really good and has a very bright future.
 
fishonjazz said:
I missed this one.
Why would trading Hayward mean starting all over?

A line-up of
Exum
Hood
Bazemore
Favors
Gobert

With burks, Mack, lyles, jakob puertle (12 pick), murray/heild/chriss/dunn (#3 pick) makes the playoffs imo.

Plus tons of cap space and tons of future picks still.
Click to expand...

What I mean is we are where we were at best and more then likely leaves us starless unless I'm right about Exum, and there's still a better then decent chance we get worse by trading Hayward. If u want a better chance at a star u need to get rid of Favors and the rest of the gang for a high pick in the loaded 17 draft.


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Thee jazz fan said:
What I mean is we are where we were at best and more then likely leaves us starless unless I'm right about Exum, and there's still a better then decent chance we get worse by trading Hayward. If u want a better chance at a star u need to get rid of Favors and the rest of the gang for a high pick in the loaded 17 draft.


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Click to expand...
But see I think there is a chance there is a star at #3.
Lots of teams passed up dirk, Paul pierce, tony parker, and many many others.
We don't know who will be stars from this draft or not but most drafts have some stars in it and more picks gives us a better chance to find that star. And we could even use the #3 and #12 plus others picks or whatever to try to get a top pick next year.
 
Jazz4ever said:
I do like Ellenson's long term ability to shoot the ball. Skal and Sabonis can shoot it too though.
Click to expand...

Skal is in a truly elite class of big men that have a feathery touch.
But he's weak.

I'm not saying who the better prospect is, but I am very comfortable who the best shooter is.
 
fishonjazz said:
Ok but answer this question. Does the below lineup/scenario make the playoffs and have a really really bright future?

Exum
Hood
Bazemore
Favors
Gobert

With burks, Mack, lyles, jakob puertle (12 pick), murray/heild/chriss/dunn (#3 pick)

Plus tons of cap space and tons of future picks still.

If the answer is yes, then maybe the risk of losing Hayward isn't even that big a deal anyway.

I say that roster looks really good and has a very bright future.
Click to expand...

I thought your whole argument was getting a star?? This lineup maybe, maybe doesn't end up better then the current lineup. I guess I view Hayward as really good even if he isn't a star. I also don't view such players as DeRozen as stars and I value Hayward as the Superior player. I'd still hate to lose a talent like Hayward and am willing to trust DL with getting the best player possible at 12 like last year. I feel Hayward would be an allstar already had he been in a better situation.


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[MENTION=1066]Thee jazz fan[/MENTION]

I see it like this: losing Hayward doesn't make us much worse next year and going forward. We replace him with #3 and #12 and a free agent. Hell we might even be better.
Getting that #3 pick give us a chance, however small, at getting a star though.

So basically it's low risk, and possibly a high reward.
 
Last edited:
fishonjazz said:
But see I think there is a chance there is a star at #3.
Lots of teams passed up dirk, Paul pierce, tony parker, and many many others.
We don't know who will be stars from this draft or not but most drafts have some stars in it and more picks gives us a better chance to find that star. And we could even use the #3 and #12 plus others picks or whatever to try to get a top pick next year.
Click to expand...

I definitely see the appeal to what you are saying, but I think I view Hayward a little more then u do. I want a little more then the third pick in this draft. I'm not sure there's a big enough difference in the 3rd pick and the 12th pick to justify getting rid of Hayward.

It's also possible that u are right and I'm wrong, but who knows. A few days ago I told dr. Jones that I felt that over the years he had been objective as far as UK players go, but felt he wasn't with Murray. He wrote in a PM to me that if I felt he was objective as far as his guys go then why not Murray.

It's interesting and food for thought. I trust and respect the doc, but my own mind I can't discount what I see. Doesn't mean I'm wrong. I will say I was about the only one that wanted Lyles or even had any interest in the Jazz picking him and that turned out good. Lol as much as I like Dr. Jones I like me more:)


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fishonjazz said:
[MENTION=1066]Thee jazz fan[/MENTION]

I see it like this: losing Hayward doesn't make is much worse next year and going forward. We replace him with #3 and #12 and a free agent. Hell we might even be better.
Getting that #3 pick give us a chance, however small, at getting a star though.

So basically it's low risk, and possibly a high reward.
Click to expand...

I admit as much in my last post, but Hayward is really good IMO and there's still a chance we get very little from pick 12 and just a decent player with pick 3. Still it makes me think but then hang up the phone if the C's were the ones calling me.


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Thee jazz fan said:
I definitely see the appeal to what you are saying, but I think I view Hayward a little more then u do. I want a little more then the third pick in this draft. I'm not sure there's a big enough difference in the 3rd pick and the 12th pick to justify getting rid of Hayward.

It's also possible that u are right and I'm wrong, but who knows. A few days ago I told dr. Jones that I felt that over the years he had been objective as far as UK players go, but felt he wasn't with Murray. He wrote in a PM to me that if I felt he was objective as far as his guys go then why not Murray.

It's interesting and food for thought. I trust and respect the doc, but my own mind I can't discount what I see. Doesn't mean I'm wrong. I will say I was about the only one that wanted Lyles or even had any interest in the Jazz picking him and that turned out good. Lol as much as I like Dr. Jones I like me more:)


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Click to expand...

I like you more too.
 
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