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Gay Nightclub mass shooting -- Orlando, Florida

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 848
  • Start date Start date
JimLes said:
You disagree with homosexuality? What the hell does that mean? Can I disagree with people being black or people being Muslim? How about the disabled? Women?

You know what? **** you. **** you and everyone else who spouts this ******** of "I don't approve of who you are but I'm kinda okay with you" and pretends that it doesn't create a culture. That it doesn't lead to homophobia. That it doesn't lead to a guy taking a gun and killing fifty people and wounding another fifty. Because the guy didn't just get like that. You don't just shoot black people or gay people or whoever else. You do it because there's a chunk of society that normalizes hatred of other groups. And yes, those like you hide behind their ******** veneer of "disagreement"(just be honest to yourself and us and say that you think less of gay people) and then pretend that you and so many others looking down on what someone does or who someone is isn't a big deal. It doesn't contribute to anything, and certainly not violence. You just disagree. No biggie.

100 casualties, but this nice man just disagrees with homosexuality. Doesn't want them dead. Just disagrees with them.
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*added*
#watchlist
 
This pisses me off beyond belief. My heart goes out to the deceased, their families, those wounded, their families and the entire community who has to endure this ********.
 
JimLes said:
You disagree with homosexuality? What the hell does that mean? Can I disagree with people being black or people being Muslim? How about the disabled? Women?

You know what? **** you. **** you and everyone else who spouts this ******** of "I don't approve of who you are but I'm kinda okay with you" and pretends that it doesn't create a culture. That it doesn't lead to homophobia. That it doesn't lead to a guy taking a gun and killing fifty people and wounding another fifty. Because the guy didn't just get like that. You don't just shoot black people or gay people or whoever else. You do it because there's a chunk of society that normalizes hatred of other groups. And yes, those like you hide behind their ******** veneer of "disagreement"(just be honest to yourself and us and say that you think less of gay people) and then pretend that you and so many others looking down on what someone does or who someone is isn't a big deal. It doesn't contribute to anything, and certainly not violence. You just disagree. No biggie.

100 casualties, but this nice man just disagrees with homosexuality. Doesn't want them dead. Just disagrees with them.
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This is clear a religious belief. Are you a atheist?
 
dalamon said:
Im sorry but you have to be incredibly ignorant to not think that this is happening.
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I don't know if it is or it isn't happening, but there have already been stories about mosques both in Europe and in the US preaching some truly heinous ****. I don't know what the response of the larger community is(I've seen videos of their message being cheered, rather than contested or challenged) and variety of polls suggest that if it is being challenged it hasn't had much effect.
 
stitches said:
I don't know if it is or it isn't happening, but there have already been stories about mosques both in Europe and in the US preaching some truly heinous ****. I don't know what the response of the larger community is(I've seen videos of their message being cheered, rather than contested or challenged).
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I'm very ready and willing and excited to talk homophobia with someone, but it's full-out laughable when people disingenuously appraise it uniquely as a Muslim issue.

Look no further than this thread (and forum) where you have the resident Muslims being more staunchly in favour of liberties for LGBT people than their Mormon and/or fundamentalist Christian counterparts.
 
#bern said:
I just don't get it. I mean, look, I disagree with homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc etc. I'm one of those nasty fundamentalist Christians. I'm what's labeled as a radical Chrisfian. Never, ever, ever have I wanted to kill somebody because I disagree with how they live their life. I don't even want to punch them, verbally abuse them, anything like that. Why is it so hard to just treat a person decently? I can disagree with somebody and still get along with them. It's not actually that hard.
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Great post. Most have been here so far.
 
JimLes said:
You disagree with homosexuality? What the hell does that mean? Can I disagree with people being black or people being Muslim? How about the disabled? Women?

You know what? **** you. **** you and everyone else who spouts this ******** of "I don't approve of who you are but I'm kinda okay with you" and pretends that it doesn't create a culture. That it doesn't lead to homophobia. That it doesn't lead to a guy taking a gun and killing fifty people and wounding another fifty. Because the guy didn't just get like that. You don't just shoot black people or gay people or whoever else. You do it because there's a chunk of society that normalizes hatred of other groups. And yes, those like you hide behind their ******** veneer of "disagreement"(just be honest to yourself and us and say that you think less of gay people) and then pretend that you and so many others looking down on what someone does or who someone is isn't a big deal. It doesn't contribute to anything, and certainly not violence. You just disagree. No biggie.

100 casualties, but this nice man just disagrees with homosexuality. Doesn't want them dead. Just disagrees with them.
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Oh Jesus. Drink a warm glass of milk or something. You know what he means. He's not sitting up high, preaching. He's saying it honestly and respectfully.
 
dalamon said:
I'm very ready and willing and excited to talk homophobia with someone, but it's full-out laughable when people disingenuously appraise it uniquely as a Muslim issue.

Look no further than this thread (and forum) where you have the resident Muslims being more staunchly in favour of liberties for LGBT people than their Mormon and/or fundamentalist Christian counterparts.
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Umh, did I do that? I think I specifically said that the Christian preachers have similarly horrible views on the topic. I don't think it is uniquely Muslim problem. But I'd say it is a predominantly religious issue. There are very few secular arguments against homosexuality.
 
stitches said:
Umh, did I do that? I think I specifically said that the Christian preachers have similarly horrible views on the topic. I don't think it is uniquely Muslim problem. But I'd say it is a predominantly religious issue. There are very few secular arguments against homosexuality.
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It is a religious issue. 100%.

But keep in mind homophobia is pretty rampant everywhere, but mass violence at the scale of the US isn't.

Dude purchased two guns in the past week despite ongoing criminal investigations
 
JimLes said:
Well, then it's all good, right. There's no way thinking being gay(or having gay sex, because he's pretending they're different things) is immoral in any way contributes to dehumanization of gay people.
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I think it does, but I also think it deserves proportional response(as in calmly engaging those people and challenging their views), rather than lumping them in a group with the killers and pouring your ire on them almost on the same level as you do with the killers.
 
Theirs personal view/opinions and there's actions.

To me, this is not a religious divide. There's religious undertones, for sure, but killing is another level.
 
JimLes said:
Well, then it's all good, right. There's no way thinking being gay(or having gay sex, because he's pretending they're different things) is immoral in any way contributes to dehumanization of gay people.
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Can you say this in English?
 
Dr. Jones said:
Theirs personal view/opinions and there's actions.

To me, this is not a religious divide. There's religious undertones, for sure, but killing is another level.
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I think it's a 1+1

- rampant homophobia across the US, across all Abrahamic faiths
- bizarre access to firearms (including particularly deadly ones)

Personal views very much lead to actions. Gay marriage barely passed 5-4 in the Supreme Court & it's already being threatened to be reversed.
 
dalamon said:
I'm very ready and willing and excited to talk homophobia with someone, but it's full-out laughable when people disingenuously appraise it uniquely as a Muslim issue.

Look no further than this thread (and forum) where you have the resident Muslims being more staunchly in favour of liberties for LGBT people than their Mormon and/or fundamentalist Christian counterparts.
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Agree completely but why go after the Mormons? Last I checked they do not have sects beheading gays or raping reporters or bombing people in the name of Zion.

Again I want to reiterate [MENTION=430]Dr. Jones[/MENTION] post that we do not see things as anti-Muslim but anti-radical. [MENTION=848]dalamon[/MENTION] I love and appreciate your courage speaking out on these issues.
 
stitches said:
lumping them in a group with the killers and pouring your ire on them almost on the same level as you do with the killers.
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Someone/something has to create killers. No one lives in a bubble. Someone has to create that atmosphere, the views, the hate. It doesn't happen on its own, and we give those people who create that hate a pass.

When mass killings and even genocide happens around the world, we tend to demand that politicians and soldiers be brought to justice. Those directly involved in ordering and perpetrating atrocities. We never think to go after journalist who would stoke fires of hate, who would dehumanize entire groups, and sometimes outright call for killing. We never think to go after all kinds of non-political and non-military public figures who created the hate. I know there's criminal responsibility, but is there no moral responsibility?

I mean, the father of this perpetrator claims he saw two man kissing and it made the dude angry. Ok, clearly, he told you about if you're telling us about it. What did you tell him as a father? Did you tell him there was nothing wrong with being gay? That two men kissing isn't something shocking, it's normal? Did you spend 30 years raising a son by telling him to love everyone and not hate anyone? Did you show him, by words and deeds, that gay people are people just like you and your son? I'd love to ask the father this. I'd love to ask if he feels moral responsibility for this? If other people feel any moral responsibility for creating a culture of hate.
 
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