MVP
Well-Known Member
So you are saying if regular people would have access to guns more easily it would be better?
Florida Airport Shooting - 5 Dead 13 hurt
- Thread starter The Midnight
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So you are saying if regular people would have access to guns more easily it would be better?
I am saying that one city, or even state, trying to dramatically restrict guns in their jurisdiction only takes the guns out of the hands of good guys. In American society that is a dead end that will not help anything. There are tons of guns stores just outside Chicago city limits that sell guns like crazy. Where do you think many of those guns end up?
So yes in this scenario I think it would make it better. The criminal element would learn that they are likely to get shot so occurrences would drop to some degree. Now I am not saying guns are the answer but in this exact scenario I think they would help.
The only ones obeying these gun laws are some law abiding citizens.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
So that first part was from the Quran-- but that second part...er....wasn't.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
I'd spitball that the difference between governments has some role in it. In the average Islamic country the gov has some element of theological rule. A far stronger element than the average Christian dominated nation.
It does some more resistant than Christianity to change. I am sure some of that is what's presented and that is always biased to one degree or another. So how true, or not, it really it is clearly debatable.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Here, let me answer that since Stoked is afraid to.
Because people are afraid to speak up. They don't want to die or have awful things happen to them. Islam is the religion of intimidation and violence.
After an extremely LONG day I can finally answer this.
As has been pointed out in this thread, Chicago having such strict gun laws has created a city of victims.
You cited something you claimed was a small study (admittedly, I didn't read it as I haven't had the time). Great. I'm not saying I will never think stricter gun laws are the answer. In fact, I've been on record as stating something needs to be done.
What I am saying is that the sad truth is people wanting to do bad things with guns will always find a way to do it. Taking away my right and ability to defend myself is not the answer, IMO.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
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Thanks for your reply, but honestly I don't know how to respond to quotes from Thomas Jefferson and Bejamin Franklin. It's like whatever I say against those 'words of truths' are going to be judged against, right?
Anyway I don't claim to have the answer but in the quotes above are mentioned 'assailants' and 'assaulted'. Yes OK maybe in the 18th Century you need guns to protect yourself because nobody's gonna be able to help you if you live in a farm 30-40 minutes horse ride away from the Sheriff.
But don't you think we need to update this line of thinking for the 21st Century where police can respond and get to your house within minutes? Where we are now living in densely populated area and we can set up nighbourhood watch to help? We also have alarm systems, security systems, cameras now too at our disposal. Seems to me there are lots that can be looked at before handing a gun to everyone who wants one. (one could argue that giving 'assailants' easy access isn't the answer neither?)
Again I never claim to have 'the answer', but I just don't think shutting down an argument with 'Second Amendment rights' and 'well it's always been that way' is the solution.
I can respect your line of thinking. But what I come back to is that bad people will always find a way to have guns. Always. In your scenario of cops being able to get to your house in minutes, if the criminal has a gun and wants to do harm, those cops are useless. You will be dead before they get there. A bullet travels way faster than a police car.
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Yes I get that, but then that's like the chicken and egg situation isn't it?
You give easy access to guns to everyone. Who is going to benefit from that the most? Obviously the assailants because they're always on the look out to do harm to others. So obviously the 'take up rate' of guns amongst assailants is going to be high compared to the general public. Most everyday Americans don't own guns for example. I think gun ownership rate is 36%.
It's a tough one, but you need to start somewhere. If you want more evidence then all you need to do is take a look around the world, countries with strict gun control (Japan, Aus, etc), have a significantly less gun related homicides and suicides, it's as simple as that.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, Computer? Well how many limbs does your invisible sky daddy have? I bet my invisible sky daddy could wrap your invisible sky daddy up and smother him in marinara sauce until he cried.
Ive made it pretty clear on plenty of occasions what I think of all religions. So nice try at a burn. I could care less what crap you talk about Christianity or any other religion. I'm just calling it like it is. In the current day, Christianity is far more peaceful than Islam could ever dream of being. The proof is everywhere. Pictures, videos, writings, and reality. Peace one of main goals of the people on this planet. Id rather no religion exist, and the rest of the planet pull their heads out there asses. So we can get on with accomplishing more important things.
You are the dunce that is all mixed up. You have this stance against religion but at the same time defend the worst religion of all time for the sake of bowing down to your PC God. You cant on any level defend it logically.
DutchJazzer
Banned
The reason the murder rate in Chicago is high is nto because of gun or gun laws, it is because of broken families, men there got no idea of what it's like to be a man because they are getting raised by moms. so they turn to the street and each other to become a "man" but all they become is tribalisitic thugs
Don't imply that you know anything about what I think. Hack
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
I have a hard time believing gun ownership rates are as low as 36%. Care to cite that OL?
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Why? Because 31,102 posts isnt enough of a glimpse into how you think?
I know twice as much about you as you know about me.
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Sure:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/american-gun-ownership-is-now-at-a-30-year-low/?utm_term=.7aec16552343
Here's another article that said that half of firearms belong to just 3% of adults:
https://fortune.com/2016/09/19/us-gun-ownership/
DutchJazzer
Banned
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. Without knowing where they took the poll, seems like it was pretty limited.
PEW had a poll where ownership was 44%, with 5% of responders declining to answer. Since there are people who own unregistered guns, you can't really use government data accurately. Seems like most polls are running between 35-45% with a certain amount of people declining to answer, which is indicative of them owning a gun. Based on that, I would guess true numbers are running around 40-50% of households.
PEW had a poll where ownership was 44%, with 5% of responders declining to answer. Since there are people who own unregistered guns, you can't really use government data accurately. Seems like most polls are running between 35-45% with a certain amount of people declining to answer, which is indicative of them owning a gun. Based on that, I would guess true numbers are running around 40-50% of households.