What's new
By:

Jazz taking Jimmer #6 "most logical pick in NBA Draft History"

jimmy eat jazz said:
That would probably make some people happy, but I doubt Jimmer could come up with anything remotely approaching "Just Watch the Fireworks."

p.s. I'm not a Jimmer homer, as I've stated, I'm on the fence about him.
Click to expand...

BEST SONG OF THEIRS. Rep-ed.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
Not to continue to beat this dead horse, but as I was watching Dallas-Portland game last night, I was thinking that Jason Terry has forged out a decent career as an undersized quasi SG/PG. Is Jimmer's game, and his potential, anywhere near comparable to Terrys? (As a side note, I really like Terry's game and would love to have someone with his skill set on the team.)

I suspect this question/topic has already been raised, possibly several times, but I don't feel like plowing through the hundreds of posts on the numerous Jimmer threads to find out.
Click to expand...

He is nowhere near as athletic as Terry, that is the problem.
 
As far as his athleticism, I think that it is ok, and his offensive ability definately is there, but I feel that his defensive skill is atrotious and he has a lot of work to do defensively and with his passing. He will be a great player in the NBA, but that doesnt say how far he will be able to take a team within NBA standards. He needs to do something besides shoot the ball. F***all the Jimmer homers and F***all the Anti's. Cant there be an balance between the two?
 
If JJ Barea can survive/start/role-player in the league, I think Jimmer will be fine. I'd much rather see Jimmer shoot than Bell, AK, Watson, and Miles.
 
Watson hasn't been that bad shooting the ball it just looks like he doing something in his pants when he shoots!
 
Archie Moses said:
If JJ Barea can survive/start/role-player in the league, I think Jimmer will be fine. I'd much rather see Jimmer shoot than Bell, AK, Watson, and Miles.
Click to expand...

For me at least, the question isn't about whether he can survive in the league or not. The question is will he be BPA at #12, and on a larger scale, can a team afford to let players coast on defense? Can a player that has never put an effort in on that side of the court (whether he has been told to preserve his effort/fouls is not only beside the point, but a cop out) suddenly learn how to when the competition is so much steeper it's hardly even comparable and at a relatively old age? I think allowing players to coast on D creates a toxic environment on a team as it creates almost a class system among players and it undermines the base principle of working as a team to win as a team. It undermines the notion that everyone has to put in the same effort, regardless of their natural ability or productivity. Champion teams generally don't undermine that philosophy, and the only exceptions are so stacked with talent that they're undeniable (early 2000's Lakers are the only to come to mind). The Jazz will never be that team. I don't believe a team based in an area like Utah has many, if any, advantages at all, and there would not be a margin of error to allow some kid with a shot to undermine the true nature of a winning team.

Jimmer can probably - at worst - come off the bench and help a team score some silly buckets. He might even learn to care about not embarrassing himself on one side of the court on every possession of every game. He might learn that shooting 30-foot shots isn't really practical and doesn't help you win. Who ****ing knows. But we've seen none of that. Rather, his defense has somehow gotten WORSE with time as has his shot selection. If the Jazz are really looking at him to be their franchise PG like Chad Ford alleges then they are making a totally retarded bet. I have reservations about him coming off the bench, having him play against starting PGs and playing major minutes projects to be a cripplingly retarded move to me in terms of what that means for championship aspirations. Go down the list of starting PGs in the NBA and NO ONE can HONESTLY tell me or anyone else Jimmer would be anything but an embarrassment against more than half of them.

Teams that are serious about a championship cannot afford trash like that. If Jimmer wasn't a Jo Bro from BYU, people would say his play was pure hopper garbage.
 
He is athletic

Anyone with a 36 inch vertical and scores 30 pts a game despite being double teamed the whole game is athletic. Also he does not score by outside shots alone. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to stop looking at skin color... Because his effort is lacking on the defensive end does not mean he is unathletic.
 
Look we all know he is awesome because it is hard to score wearing a suit and tie, riding a bike with a name badge on your suit.








(ok I felt left out on the whole "white mormon" commentary thing...so sue me =)
 
rrkme said:
Anyone with a 36 inch vertical and scores 30 pts a game despite being double teamed the whole game is athletic. Also he does not score by outside shots alone. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to stop looking at skin color... Because his effort is lacking on the defensive end does not mean he is unathletic.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you're responding to me at all or not, but for the record, I didn't say anything about his athleticism or lack thereof.

As far as how he translates to the NBA, the only surefire NBA skill he has is shooting. I'm not confident his hezos or crossovers are going to be enough to get into the lane, and I don't buy for a second he'll beat anyone off the dribble. But he might. I really don't care. I think he's a bad-apple in disguise (not that he's a bad guy per se, but that his game is ultimately about him and not his team). This race card crap that Jimmer-maniacs are pulling is a two-way street. People might think he is more athletic if he was black, but then he wouldn't be the great white hope that can do no wrong.
 
NUMBERICA said:
For me at least, the question isn't about whether he can survive in the league or not. The question is will he be BPA at #12, and on a larger scale, can a team afford to let players coast on defense? Can a player that has never put an effort in on that side of the court (whether he has been told to preserve his effort/fouls is not only beside the point, but a cop out) suddenly learn how to when the competition is so much steeper it's hardly even comparable and at a relatively old age? I think allowing players to coast on D creates a toxic environment on a team as it creates almost a class system among players and it undermines the base principle of working as a team to win as a team. It undermines the notion that everyone has to put in the same effort, regardless of their natural ability or productivity. Champion teams generally don't undermine that philosophy, and the only exceptions are so stacked with talent that they're undeniable (early 2000's Lakers are the only to come to mind). The Jazz will never be that team. I don't believe a team based in an area like Utah has many, if any, advantages at all, and there would not be a margin of error to allow some kid with a shot to undermine the true nature of a winning team.

Jimmer can probably - at worst - come off the bench and help a team score some silly buckets. He might even learn to care about not embarrassing himself on one side of the court on every possession of every game. He might learn that shooting 30-foot shots isn't really practical and doesn't help you win. Who ****ing knows. But we've seen none of that. Rather, his defense has somehow gotten WORSE with time as has his shot selection. If the Jazz are really looking at him to be their franchise PG like Chad Ford alleges then they are making a totally retarded bet. I have reservations about him coming off the bench, having him play against starting PGs and playing major minutes projects to be a cripplingly retarded move to me in terms of what that means for championship aspirations. Go down the list of starting PGs in the NBA and NO ONE can HONESTLY tell me or anyone else Jimmer would be anything but an embarrassment against more than half of them.

Teams that are serious about a championship cannot afford trash like that. If Jimmer wasn't a Jo Bro from BYU, people would say his play was pure hopper garbage.
Click to expand...

Jimmer did what he had to do for BYU to go 32-5 and make the sweet 16. His 30' shots were the best option considering the talent around him. The fact that he can make those type of shots with the shot clock winding down is a huge bonus and what you should be concentrating on, not the silly fact he will be shooting them all the time. We have some talent to help him out.
 
Jazz4ever said:
Jimmer did what he had to do for BYU to go 32-5 and make the sweet 16. His 30' shots were the best option considering the talent around him. The fact that he can make those type of shots with the shot clock winding down is a huge bonus and what you should be concentrating on, not the silly fact he will be shooting them all the time. We have some talent to help him out.
Click to expand...

This is such a convenient argument for bad players. I will always point to the 42-40 '03-'04 Jazz as an example that you can win without black holes and chuckers that play no D.
 
Only time will tell. He's a high risk/but even more high reward player at 12. Yeah, he's defense is questionable, but you're acting like he can't progress or change on the defensive end. There are plenty of PG's in the NBA I can name that are atrocious on defense. From I know, Jimmer practically lives in the gym. He's not undersized and he's very strong. He may have cement feet, but that can be corrected.

With all this being said, I will be happy if the Jazz win with just one of the picks.
 
rrkme said:
Anyone with a 36 inch vertical and scores 30 pts a game despite being double teamed the whole game is athletic. Also he does not score by outside shots alone. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to stop looking at skin color... Because his effort is lacking on the defensive end does not mean he is unathletic.
Click to expand...

C'mon, nobody that has seen him play thinks he is in game athletic. That was his whole charm. You had this guy that looked to be an every man athlete that was still getting the job done at a high level while playing like an out of control churchballer.

If he has a 36 inch vert, that's great. But his game does not incorporate that much outside of the occasional jumper. He definitely plays stuck to the ground.
 
I'd guess Jimmer's no step vert is about 26-27 inches. That's just a guess though based on measurement's history on draftexpress. Who knows though...some dudes like Archie's seemingly explosive (based on highlights) Willie Warren came in at just 23 while others who hardly attack the rim like Mike Conley Jr. come in at 35.5. Hell, Koby Karl, Chris Paul and Josh Smith all came in relatively equal at 32.0, 32.0 and 32.5 respectively.

So what's it really mean? These measurements all occur in the vacuum of a very controlled environment which incorporates athletic endeavors that never actually occur in an NBA game. Do guys jump high and block shots? Sure. But they don't stand there, set their feet perfectly, jump as explosively as possible and then reach as high as possible like say the No Step Vert Reach. Blocking shots incorporates so much more like positioning, timing, and an ability to block said shot without fouling just to name a few things. The same can be said for all measurement tests performed in Orlando. They aren't an indication of how these players use their athletic abilities, or lack thereof, in game play which is all that matters.

For me, based on the little I watched Jimmer (two tourney games), I thought he may be explosive enough to offensively play the 1 in the league. He has a solid first step that can perhaps be improved ever so slightly and once he gets next to or by his defender has such a great basketball iq that he can, at least oftentimes in college, make a sharp pass or create space with crafty body positioning for a shot or lay-up. Beyond his obvious shooting range, this is where he excels in what I saw. In many ways, that's not unlike Gordon Hayward. Both have average athleticism but have great in-game iq's and are crafty which helps them make up for said white boy syndrome. Knowing that, I would not be opposed to taking Jimmer at #12. Why I would never take him at #6 nor trade up a spot or two for him though is because of his bball iq and historical mediocrity on the defensive side of the court as well as his ego, for lack of a better term. Hayward was at least coached on a team that stressed defense above pretty much everything else. It's a large part of the reason Butler went to the title game again. He played strong defense there and was taught how to play said defense very intelligently. Not only was Jimmer not expected to play even close to the same defense as Hayward was (and even if he was expected to, he sucked at it) but he (I would bet) was not coached nearly as well on the art of doing so as Hayward was at Butler. Additionally, I wonder how Jimmer would adapt to the NBA environment, the obvious struggles that that will bring him, and the fact that he's no longer not only not the man, but not even close to the man, coming off the bench as likely our 10th guy, give or take, at least early on in the season, if not all season. Sports demand a tough psychological make-up and I/we have no idea if he'll mentally be able to deal with the rigors of what he'll face in the NBA.

Orlando should tell us a little bit more about his defensive make-up and ability to run the point. I'm very interested to see how things go there.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top