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[Jones]BREAKING: Jazz willing to engage Celtics in S&T talks: But Gordon Hayward must agree

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
I'm sure they like him, but this is a starter on a 50 win team who is paid like an 8th man.

Don't be ridiculous.
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Juan was great when given time. Was in a crowded frontcourt and is paid like a minimum player and has upside. Plus the team controls his next contract.

Per minute they are not far off from each other. Where would Hernangomez be selected in last year's draft in a redo... dude has a ton of value... don't downplay that by saying he averaged 5 pts a game.
 
NAOS said:
I just don't think we have any idea about the subtle and subterranean leverage that is in play here. Someone mentioned GM's 'social capital'.... I think that's the right way into the understory here. And that could get compounded if Crowder himself wants out.
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Again, he has one of the best contracts in the NBA. He might be the most valuable non-star or rookie contract in the NBA. He isnt how one would payback a favor.


And I hope I'm wrong on all this, I really do. I'm not getting my hopes up though.
 
ekimebirt said:
Danny Ainge is from BYU so he has some face saving to do as well. He is already hated by half of Utah but if he gives us nothing he will be sealing the fate of his sons campaign and also be hated by 90% of the state. There are a number of things that could be done as well. I would send AB, Diaw, and a lottery protected pick for Crowder and either Bradley,Smart or Jaylyn Brown.
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Why do people keep thinking we have to give the C's anything. Besides they are trying to shed salary. They wouldn't want anything but a pick, and I see no reason why we have to do that.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I just had an inaccurate spreadsheet of Celtics contract data that didnt account for the cap-holds on their new rookies.
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Well you could see that it didn't account for that stuff or follow the experts who talk about this stuff... it isn't a secret that they needed to move someone.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Juan was great when given time. Was in a crowded frontcourt and is paid like a minimum player and has upside. Plus the team controls his next contract.

Per minute they are not far off from each other. Where would Hernangomez be selected in last year's draft in a redo... dude has a ton of value... don't downplay that by saying he averaged 5 pts a game.
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https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/jae-crowder/

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/juan-hernangomez/

Please spare me.
 
ekimebirt said:
Danny Ainge is from BYU so he has some face saving to do as well. He is already hated by half of Utah but if he gives us nothing he will be sealing the fate of his sons campaign and also be hated by 90% of the state. There are a number of things that could be done as well. I would send AB, Diaw, and a lottery protected pick for Crowder and either Bradley,Smart or Jaylyn Brown.
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Is his son the Republican nominee? If so Ainge could walk into Temple Square and shoot someone and it wouldn't change the outcome. Mormons are almost more loyal to the Republican party than to their own church, or at least they see them as two parts of a whole.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I think a favor is like a 2nd round pick, maybe Terry Rozier, or maybe Avery Bradley.

I dont think a favor is here take one of the best contracts in the NBA.
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Oh I agree and it likely becomes that, but I'd push like hell to get Crowder because he is the one I think that will want out and that makes the most sense to move. I think they likely want to keep Rozier because of his contract and Bradley is IT hip injury insurance on top of everything else he does.

If we had to give up a lotto protected pick I'd do it because Crowder is a tremendous value. I just think DL would have to swallow some pride and dude has had to swallow more than he deserves in this deal. Would be nice if Hayward and his agent went hard if they really value the relationship.

The only real risk Danny has though is making the Hayward relationship really rocky and continuing to cement his image as a real douche to deal with. We have no downside in really going hard at this.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Just put yourself in Ainge's shoes. Why in the **** are you giving away Crowder for free when you can get value elsewhere? Unless there is some intense agent power going on, it just doesn't make sense.
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He probably doesn't trade Crowder in this S&T. He trades us Rozier, D Jackson + a trade exception.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Well you could see that it didn't account for that stuff or follow the experts who talk about this stuff... it isn't a secret that they needed to move someone.
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According to Woj, if they renounce all their FA, keep Yab in Europe, and trade Rozier, they are only 300K short of Hayward's max. They dont have to trade Crowder for free.
 
SCS said:
He probably doesn't trade Crowder in this S&T. He trades us Rozier, D Jackson + a trade exception.
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Yes. This is what I would bet on.

I wonder what the Jazz could manage to get for Rozier in a trade....

What young team needs a PG? Seems like none after that draft.

Maybe we can trade him to Phoenix for Derrick Jones Jr?
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
According to Woj, if they renounce all their FA, keep Yab in Europe, and trade Rozier, they are only 300K short of Hayward's max. They dont have to trade Crowder for free.
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They would waive Mickey as well... and they are short... so is Hayward taking another pay cut... he could for sure, but it's a tough ask.

Danny also values Rozier really high... it's a running joke amongst Boston folks, so he may not see that as insignificant like we do.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Those are not based on 2017 numbers. Per minute their production is similar... Hernangomez shot 40% from three his rookie year... dude is 5 years younger.

But yeah some model that uses year old data should be the oracle of trade value.
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The Carmelo ratings were updated this past week....

Didnt know just using per minute production is the only true accurate representation. Juan Hernongomez is a god, my bad.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They would waive Mickey as well... and they are short... so is Hayward taking another pay cut... he could for sure, but it's a tough ask.

Danny also values Rozier really high... it's a running joke amongst Boston folks, so he may not see that as insignificant like we do.
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Yeah, but they are only 300K short. I was just saying they dont have to trade Crowder for nothing. They can take back a little salary. Some Jazz people act like the Celtics can't take any salary back on Crowder, and that isn't the case as long as they get rid of all their scrubs (which I would think is the preferred method).
 
[Jones]BREAKING: Jazz willing to engage Celtics in S&T talks: But Gordon Hayward must agree

Cy was wrong about Rubio so I still have hope about trading for Crowder.

Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yes. This is what I would bet on.

I wonder what the Jazz could manage to get for Rozier in a trade....

What young team needs a PG? Seems like none after that draft.

Maybe we can trade him to Phoenix for Derrick Jones Jr?
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Rozier for Derrick Jones Jr.???? **** if that is the return keep Rozier.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, but they are only 300K short. I was just saying they dont have to trade Crowder for nothing. They can take back a little salary. Some Jazz people act like the Celtics can't take any salary back on Crowder, and that isn't the case as long as they get rid of all their scrubs (which I would think is the preferred method).
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I am not some people.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yes. This is what I would bet on.

I wonder what the Jazz could manage to get for Rozier in a trade....

What young team needs a PG? Seems like none after that draft.

Maybe we can trade him to Phoenix for Derrick Jones Jr?
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Washington? They got Tim Frazier for their second round pick but they could use more backup options.
Denver?
New York maybe?
 
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