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Loyalty

JazzMan4Life

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I'm not sure if there is a post/rep limit for starting new threads, but I'd like to get JFC's opinion on loyalty and how it applies to our team and "Jazz DNA". Also if somebody smarter than me could post the Youtube link to Kendrick Lamar's - DNA (clean version) I'd appreciate it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbrJuXPCzR8). TIA
 
I dont think loyalty is a thing that should be expected/demanded in sports. You can't expect a player to be loyal and you cant expect an organization to be loyal to a player unless there is a long positive history (think Duncan w/ Spurs or Dirk w/ Mavs).

I also think the rise of social media makes loyalty less likely. You can see fans of your team talk **** on you daily where in the past all you would see is the occasional newspaper article.
 
I dont think loyalty is a thing that should be expected/demanded in sports. You can't expect a player to be loyal and you cant expect an organization to be loyal to a player unless there is a long positive history (think Duncan w/ Spurs or Dirk w/ Mavs).

I also think the rise of social media makes loyalty less likely. You can see fans of your team talk **** on you daily where in the past all you would see is the occasional newspaper article.

I think if no loyalty between teams and players is possible, then pro sports are dead. I'm sure people will watch big sporting events like the Superbowl. But without loyalty, no meaningful emotional connection can form between a sport and its fans. Nobody follows the NBA just to watch interchangeable grown men jump around.
 
I think if no loyalty between teams and players is possible, then pro sports are dead. I'm sure people will watch big sporting events like the Superbowl. But without loyalty, no meaningful emotional connection can form between a sport and its fans. Nobody follows the NBA just to watch interchangeable grown men jump around.

So does Gordon Hayward not having loyalty ruin Jazz basketball for you?

Do people constantly calling to trade Favors on twitter ruin Jazz basketball for you?
 
I dont think loyalty is a thing that should be expected/demanded in sports. You can't expect a player to be loyal and you cant expect an organization to be loyal to a player unless there is a long positive history (think Duncan w/ Spurs or Dirk w/ Mavs).

I also think the rise of social media makes loyalty less likely. You can see fans of your team talk **** on you daily where in the past all you would see is the occasional newspaper article.

I agree, but hypothetically...

What if the Jazz were to make loyalty a characteristic of our organization like player development, winning, or family?

What if instead of trading players for assets we truly stuck with our guys and gave guys like Favors/Burks/Exum a chance to prove themselves?

I think this would convince players who wear their emotions on their sleeves, like Gobert or Mitchell, to back up their statements on how they feel about the Jazz.
 
I agree, but hypothetically...

What if the Jazz were to make loyalty a characteristic of our organization like player development, winning, or family?

What if instead of trading players for assets we truly stuck with our guys and gave guys like Favors/Burks/Exum a chance to prove themselves?

I think this would convince players who wear their emotions on their sleeves, like Gobert or Mitchell, to back up their statements on how they feel about the Jazz.

That's silly though. Both parties should do what is best for themselves and if both those things happen to lineup with each other, then you have loyalty and that's great.

The Spurs are a "loyal" organization and they still traded George Hill away for a draft pick in his contract year. So yeah, loyalty only applies to them when it's in their best interest, like every other team/player.
 
You sell to your clients, you sell to your employees and you sell to your vendors.

Jazz must sell their employees including players that it is the best place for them. In order for us to send revenue, they must convince us their product is worth buying. The moment the Jazz believe they cannot sell to players, they may as well give up. Fortunately they don't believe that's true, and I feel we may be peaking image-wise. For example Joe Johnson, Ingles, Favors and Rudy are all players that might have looked to leave or not come, but didn't.

You absolutely have to believe in loyalty if you are going to have a chance at recruiting and retaining, then execute a plan to optimize your opportunities.
 
You sell to your clients, you sell to your employees and you sell to your vendors.

Jazz must sell their employees including players that it is the best place for them. In order for us to send revenue, they must convince us their product is worth buying. The moment the Jazz believe they cannot sell to players, they may as well give up. Fortunately they don't believe that's true, and I feel we may be peaking image-wise. For example Joe Johnson, Ingles, Favors and Rudy are all players that might have looked to leave or not come, but didn't.

You absolutely have to believe in loyalty if you are going to have a chance at recruiting and retaining, then execute a plan to optimize your opportunities.

Great post. Repped (for a total of +0 I think)
 
You sell to your clients, you sell to your employees and you sell to your vendors.

Jazz must sell their employees including players that it is the best place for them. In order for us to send revenue, they must convince us their product is worth buying. The moment the Jazz believe they cannot sell to players, they may as well give up. Fortunately they don't believe that's true, and I feel we may be peaking image-wise. For example Joe Johnson, Ingles, Favors and Rudy are all players that might have looked to leave or not come, but didn't.

You absolutely have to believe in loyalty if you are going to have a chance at recruiting and retaining, then execute a plan to optimize your opportunities.

Favors and Rudy havent had a chance to leave Utah yet.....

Hardly anyone who is good gets off the team that has their RFA rights. Signing early extensions is more risk aversion than loyalty.
 
Favors and Rudy havent had a chance to leave Utah yet.....

Hardly anyone who is good gets off the team that has their RFA rights. Signing early extensions is more risk aversion than loyalty.

While I agree with the second part of your post, I think the first part is false. Favors and Rudy have TECHNICALLY both had a chance to leave, but both have chosen to stay. Favors agreed to an extension that looked like a steal before his injury concerns and Gobert agreed to an extension that was (slightly) below a max offer IIRC.
 
While I agree with the second part of your post, I think the first part is false. Favors and Rudy have TECHNICALLY both had a chance to leave, but both have chosen to stay. Favors agreed to an extension that looked like a steal before his injury concerns and Gobert agreed to an extension that was (slightly) below a max offer IIRC.

I mean, I think 1 first round pick in the last 10 years has gone to a new team after free agency and that was Tim Hardaway.
 
I mean, I think 1 first round pick in the last 10 years has gone to a new team after free agency and that was Tim Hardaway.

The top guy that comes to mind for me is Greg Monroe (I'll have to look up why). But isn't it a bit crazy that except for John Wall, nobody from the first round of the 2010 draft is on their original team?
 
The top guy that comes to mind for me is Greg Monroe (I'll have to look up why). But isn't it a bit crazy that except for John Wall, nobody from the first round of the 2010 draft is on their original team?

He took a QO and stayed w/ Detroit then left.

iirc
 
I dont think loyalty is a thing that should be expected/demanded in sports. You can't expect a player to be loyal and you cant expect an organization to be loyal to a player unless there is a long positive history (think Duncan w/ Spurs or Dirk w/ Mavs).

I also think the rise of social media makes loyalty less likely. You can see fans of your team talk **** on you daily where in the past all you would see is the occasional newspaper article.

I don't think loyalty should be expected or demanded at all. I definitely think it deserves praise when it is shown however (and I definitely think it still exists around the league). In fact, it not being expected/demanded is what makes loyalty special, because it is their choice.
 
At the very least I want a guy to be loyal to his teammates. Jazz seemed to be on that road for the most part historically up until Mark Jackson. I think we have struggled with that up until Rudy came along. The whole "Band of Brothers" thing isn't for everyone. I never got the vibe that it was for Hayward. For all of the "unfinished business" crap, he bailed on Stevens and his teammates in college, then bailed on his NBA club. I get the feeling he isn't into togetherness and prefers the chopshop approach of Boston where he can choose which relationships he wants to pursue and which ones he can be aloof from.

Even during the DWill playoff years, the Jazz weren't really fiercely loyal to each other. That is why guys like Booker and Earl Watson were such fan favorites. They cared. They got in people's face when hard fouls happened against their teammates. But they weren't essential cogs. Now our best player is that guy, and we are surrounding him with others like that.

Building that in today's NBA is difficult. I think the Spurs have it and the Warriors have it. It is hard to say if it comes as a result of winning or it is a factor in winning, but it is something I would like my team to have. We should add players that are sold out to the philosophy, even if we give up a bit on the talent end.
 
At the very least I want a guy to be loyal to his teammates. Jazz seemed to be on that road for the most part historically up until Mark Jackson. I think we have struggled with that up until Rudy came along. The whole "Band of Brothers" thing isn't for everyone. I never got the vibe that it was for Hayward. For all of the "unfinished business" crap, he bailed on Stevens and his teammates in college, then bailed on his NBA club. I get the feeling he isn't into togetherness and prefers the chopshop approach of Boston where he can choose which relationships he wants to pursue and which ones he can be aloof from.

Even during the DWill playoff years, the Jazz weren't really fiercely loyal to each other. That is why guys like Booker and Earl Watson were such fan favorites. They cared. They got in people's face when hard fouls happened against their teammates. But they weren't essential cogs. Now our best player is that guy, and we are surrounding him with others like that.

Building that in today's NBA is difficult. I think the Spurs have it and the Warriors have it. It is hard to say if it comes as a result of winning or it is a factor in winning, but it is something I would like my team to have. We should add players that are sold out to the philosophy, even if we give up a bit on the talent end.

Dwill had it w/ a lot of the guys. I think what happens is players get attached to the guys they came in with then those guys leave or get traded and they dont have the energy to really get to know the new guys who come in.
 
I think of it more as compatibility than loyalty. The Jazz put forward a certain culture, maybe defense, improving, hard work, hustle, team passing, that kind of thing. When a player leaves, that puts into question our team culture and makes us feel that we (the team) weren't good enough. For example, we really aren't compatible with the gangster vibe that some players have. You have to be at least interested in the family dynamic that is presented here. That seemed confusing when -he- left us, because he had the family dynamic, he fit in with most of what was presented by our culture, so why leave? Personally I believe that he is insecure at his core, and buckled under the pressure that was here. Not just the competition of playing in the west, but the pressure of being the number one guy. But that doesn't even feel right. I have met enough O.C.D. types to know that when they get something in their head, they aren't satisfied until they get whatever it is, and he might have had a compulsion to go back to Brad Stephens, who sealed the deal by talking all of that basketball fast paced stuff. We will never know what went on between them when he was 'growing up' as a college player, but there must have been something that lingered. Anyway, I keep saying that through our coaching and resources we made him, we can make another him.
 
I think of it more as compatibility than loyalty. The Jazz put forward a certain culture, maybe defense, improving, hard work, hustle, team passing, that kind of thing. When a player leaves, that puts into question our team culture and makes us feel that we (the team) weren't good enough. For example, we really aren't compatible with the gangster vibe that some players have. You have to be at least interested in the family dynamic that is presented here. That seemed confusing when -he- left us, because he had the family dynamic, he fit in with most of what was presented by our culture, so why leave? Personally I believe that he is insecure at his core, and buckled under the pressure that was here. Not just the competition of playing in the west, but the pressure of being the number one guy. But that doesn't even feel right. I have met enough O.C.D. types to know that when they get something in their head, they aren't satisfied until they get whatever it is, and he might have had a compulsion to go back to Brad Stephens, who sealed the deal by talking all of that basketball fast paced stuff. We will never know what went on between them when he was 'growing up' as a college player, but there must have been something that lingered. Anyway, I keep saying that through our coaching and resources we made him, we can make another him.

What is the "gangster" vibe?
 
And there is really no need to psychoanalysis the decision when it's super obvious.

He went to the better offensive team who has a clearer road to get to the finals and get multiple all-star appearances. That decision became even more apparent when Jimmy Butler and Paul George both got traded West along w/ Lebron James rumors that he will be moving West also. If Lebron leaves (which at least seems like a possibility) then the Celtics become clear favorites to get to the Finals for years to come.
 
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