War on Obamacare

[The Thriller]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/13/news/economy/trump-obamacare-subsidies/index.html

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...rs-expected-to-drive-up-costs-for-middle-clas

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-health-care-system/59dff67a30fb041a74e75d48/

This is not “letting” Obamacare fail. Many nonpartisan experts believe that these active measures are likely to undermine the pillars of the 2010 law and hasten the collapse of the marketplaces.

Pretty stupid move IMO.

By ending federal subsidies to insurance, the market is going to destabilize, people will lose insurance (estimated 1 million will lose their insurance by 2018), and premiums will skyrocket. It is estimated that insurance premiums will increase 20-30 percent.

He again attacks McConnell, by blaming the Senate for failing to repeal and replace Obamacare which has forced Donald to defund it. Then by hurting millions of Americans with higher premiums and lost plans, doesn't he screw the GOP further in 2018? I'd think that skyrocketingnpremiums and a health care system in chaos would do very little in helping the party in power remain in power. If Donald thinks advancing his agenda is hard while his party holds Congress, just how much harder will it be once we retake the Congress and are aiming at impeaching him? Pretty stupid IMO.

He's undercutting his own party and supporters.

Oh, and remember his promise Of creating a health care system where everyone is covered? Why doesn't his racist base calL him out on his lies? They whine about being unfairly labeled as racists but don't ever call Him out for his asinine moves on literally everything else. Don't want to be labeled a Racist? Then show That you care about these other things. Donald is backtracking on everything but his racism.

Thus broken version of Obamacare can't be blamed on Obama or Democrats, but on Republicans and the dotard. You break it you own it. 2018 is going to slaughter the GOP

 

[LogGrad98]

It is time for single-payer not for profit medical. Man the whole system is just so ****ed up. My wife recently got a CPAP machine. We saw a pricing sheet from the medical provider for it, which they probably did not intend for us to see. It ranged from $500 on the low end all the way to $3000, all depending on what insurance you have and how it gets paid. They told us that our 20% would be $600 bucks and that our insurance would pay the rest. We found one online, the same brand and model, for $400 and just bought that. Cheaper than paying the deductible and letting them rip off literally everyone else for the full $3000 my insurance would have paid, and I would have paid, and in the end who the **** knows exactly what the cost is. Our medical system is the laughing stock of the developed world tbh. And it isn't about subsidizing insurance companies, who are raking in record profits. The whole damn system is broken.

 

[fishonjazz]

**** insurance

 

[Gameface]

**** insurance

You realize our wonderful union allowed for no cap on how much our premiums can increase for 2018? For 2016-17 there was a 10% max increase, 2018 no cap.

We're probably gonna get ****ed.

 

[DutchJazzer]

lol war?

what war?!


only party waging war is black punks matter and antifa

 

[candrew]

I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about the Affordable Care Act - I've had insurance through my employer since I was 21. But I can say ALL of the anecdotal stories that I've heard from people on the plan that I know personally are positive. Certainly when it comes to expense.

If you asked Trump and his minions why they're doing this I'm sure they'll give you the standard "skyrocketing this or that" answer or "death panels" or whatever; but when it comes down to it, it's glaringly obvious the reason they're getting rid of it is because Obama created it.

Damn shame really.

Well, anyway...RIP GOP Congress....

 

[DutchJazzer]

I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about the Affordable Care Act - I've had insurance through my employer since I was 21. But I can say ALL of the anecdotal stories that I've heard from people on the plan that I know personally are positive. Certainly when it comes to expense.

If you asked Trump and his minions why they're doing this I'm sure they'll give you the standard "skyrocketing this or that" answer or "death panels" or whatever; but when it comes down to it, it's glaringly obvious the reason they're getting rid of it is because Obama created it.

Damn shame really.

Well, anyway...RIP GOP Congress....

anecdotal evidence should be shoved where the sun don't shine!

 

[DutchJazzer]

alos rand paul is epicly wesome. this plan so far has his support.

so it means it is liberty minded

 

[fishonjazz]

You realize our wonderful union allowed for no cap on how much our premiums can increase for 2018? For 2016-17 there was a 10% max increase, 2018 no cap.

We're probably gonna get ****ed.

Ya, **** insurance.
It's a criminal interprise tbh.

As for the union aspect..... I wonder why the company (management) would want our insurance to skyrocket. What do they get out of that?

Seems like the company and union wouldn't have any beef with capping the insurance.

I can't imagine that the union was at negotiations asking for an increase limit and the company not willing to allow that. Unless the company were just being dicks.

Wonder why there is no limit for 2018. Wonder who wanted that outcome in the negotiations and why.

 

[Gameface]

Our actial premiums are much higher than what we pay. The employer covers what we don't. In 2018 we're going to pay a higher percentage of the actual premium. It is definitely a plus for the company and negative for us.

Sent from my SM-J700P using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

Our actial premiums are much higher than what we pay. The employer covers what we don't. In 2018 we're going to pay a higher percentage of the actual premium. It is definitely a plus for the company and negative for us.

Sent from my SM-J700P using JazzFanz mobile app

Ah, I see. That makes sense.
Man that sucks.

I guess on the bright side I guess it's possible it could be worse without the union.
Maybe with no union we would not have a cap in 2018, or 17, 16, etc.... plus no pension, maybe less pto, maybe no raises, less hours, etc etc etc. Company could do whatever they want.

 

[The Thriller]

So some background on these Obamacare subsidies:

By law they're still intact. However, in the passing of Obamacare, the House found a loophole. The loophole was, the ACA did not specifically set aside funds for these subsidies. The subsidies would have to be periodically reviewed and distributed. The Obama administration in good faith thought that the GOP would fund these subsidies since the law demanded it. If laws aren't going to be funded by Congress then the entire democratic process becomes spoiled. The House could literally subvert any law passed by Congress and signed by the executive if they don't wish to fund it. When Obama saw this happening, he issued an executive order to fund these provisions. Democrats assumed that these provisions would continue under executive order by Clinton.

However... Things changed last fall.

So now you don't have a replacement plan, due to the GOP failing to do anything with Obamacare.

But now you have a president who has issued executive orders to defund the ACA.

As a result, EVERYONE will suffer. Even if you receive good insurance by your employer, the disruption made by these subsidies drying up will cause your premiums to skyrocket. Those on the low income side, who live in rural areas, or who receive their insurance from the Obamacare marketplace are going to be the hardest hit.

Also, without funding for high risk pools, those with pre-existing conditions will either pay 30+ percent more in premiums or see their plans evaporate altogether.

The CBO projects that this will actually COST the federal government more, nearly $6 billion onto the deficit, cause fewer people to have insurance, and lead to higher premiums. Ultimately, this move helps no one.

But it does help Donald in a sense, repeal Obama's legacy without having to work via Congress to repeal it.

Since Trump's base supposedly isn't racist, I await to see the outrage of his supporters. Especially since Donald promised us a better plan that would cover everyone and cost less. This executive order covers fewer people and costs far more. They should be outraged at their boy's flip flopping, especially since they're not racist, right?

 

[The Thriller]

It is time for single-payer not for profit medical. Man the whole system is just so ****ed up. My wife recently got a CPAP machine. We saw a pricing sheet from the medical provider for it, which they probably did not intend for us to see. It ranged from $500 on the low end all the way to $3000, all depending on what insurance you have and how it gets paid. They told us that our 20% would be $600 bucks and that our insurance would pay the rest. We found one online, the same brand and model, for $400 and just bought that. Cheaper than paying the deductible and letting them rip off literally everyone else for the full $3000 my insurance would have paid, and I would have paid, and in the end who the **** knows exactly what the cost is. Our medical system is the laughing stock of the developed world tbh. And it isn't about subsidizing insurance companies, who are raking in record profits. The whole damn system is broken.

It's ridiculous.

Have you read "An American Illness" by Elisabeth Rosenthal? She explains very well why costs are so high in America.

https://www.amazon.com/American-Sickness-Healthcare-Became-Business/dp/1594206759

Another fantastic book is "The Healing of America" by TR Reid. In this book he travels to various countries, receives health care from them, and reports what each system is like.

https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Amer...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=24PB0EC1K6CMG1C0TW0P

Personally, I'd like to go the Canadian Medicare system. It works almost exactly like our Medicare system. But spend more of our GDP than Canada does to keep wait times down. They spend about 8 percent of their GDP on HC yet cover everyone. We spend over 18 percent and don't come close to covering anyone.

Another potential replacement would be the system used in Japan, Germany, Switzerland, and France. They still use the concept of insurance. But primary insurance cannot deny you for pre-existing conditions and cannot be for profit. If you want additional coverage, supplemental insurance (which can be for profit) is also available at a fraction of the cost found here in the USA.

In both systems government helps to regulate Big Pharm and hospitals, protecting patients from being gouged. Meanwhile, our system allows for Big Pharm to literally charge whatever they want for drugs and for hospitals to charge you hundreds of dollars to just give you a capsule of Advil. "Free market!"

 

[The Thriller]

Fantastic writing/podcasts on the effects that cutting these subsidies will have on Americans.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics...trump-opts-to-tank-the-us-health-care-system/

Frustrated by Congress’ inability to pass a bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act, President Donald Trump has decided that the next best thing is to tank the country’s health care system, even if that raises premiums and leaves parts of the country without any insurance plans on the individual market.

The White House announced on Thursday night that it will cut off government payments to health insurance companies for something called cost-sharing reductions (or CSRs). This part of the Affordable Care Act mandates that insurance companies offer lower out-of-pocket costs, such as deductibles and copays, to millions of low-income Americans, and promises to reimburse the companies. With Trump’s action, insurance companies will still be required to offer the cheaper plans dictated by the CSR system, but they won’t get the promised government funds to offset those costs. That’ll cause premiums to skyrocket for middle-class families and could prompt many insurers to quit selling plans on the Obamacare exchanges...

Trump’s move will cost the federal government, the CBO determined, by forcing it to spend more on subsidies to keep premiums affordable for lower-income households. It will add $6 billion to the deficit in 2018 and more in the future, adding up to $194 billion in extra government spending if CSR payments are shut off through 2026.

Very good 4 min audio:

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/13/55753...dies-to-the-poor-is-another-blow-to-obamacare

 

[infection]

If laws aren't going to be funded by Congress then the entire democratic process becomes spoiled.

There are plenty of unfounded laws. See EMTALA.

 

[infection]

In both systems government helps to regulate Big Pharm and hospitals, protecting patients from being gouged. Meanwhile, our system allows for Big Pharm to literally charge whatever they want for drugs and for hospitals to charge you hundreds of dollars to just give you a capsule of Advil. "Free market!"

There are too many variables that are different. The bigger problem is that our society has acquiesced to the idea that nobody directly pays for their healthcare and allow a third party to handle that, then somehow feel better about forming over more money to that third party so long as we never have to see the episodicity of healthcare costs. So the consumer isn’t directly having to pay >$1k a month on their Latuda or Pradaxa or other new, overrated, non-generic medication that may only be marginally better than something off the Walmart $4 list, so it keeps stupid medicines on the market (of course after the insurance company gives pushback by making the physician complete tedious prior authorization requests).

There’s an expensive process to bring a drug to market. They can then dump that cost into a system where nobody “notices” because no individual actually pays for it directly, but everyone suffers indirectly. Look, I hate insurance companies too, but the answer is society collectively rejecting these ideas and opting for something else, not by legislating everything that makes money out of business.

 

[Red]

I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about the Affordable Care Act - I've had insurance through my employer since I was 21. But I can say ALL of the anecdotal stories that I've heard from people on the plan that I know personally are positive. Certainly when it comes to expense.

If you asked Trump and his minions why they're doing this I'm sure they'll give you the standard "skyrocketing this or that" answer or "death panels" or whatever; but when it comes down to it, it's glaringly obvious the reason they're getting rid of it is because Obama created it.

Damn shame really.

Well, anyway...RIP GOP Congress....

Without any doubt whatsoever. He's doing it because he wants to erase everything Obama supported.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/13/politics/trump-obamacare-subsidies/index.html

And, for spite. Which is remarkable. Worst President in modern history, and, the cruelest by far.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/3...n-obamacare-worst-president-in-modern-history

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) on Friday accused President Trump of seeking to dismantle the Affordable Care Act out of spite, calling him "the worst President in modern history."

"Latest reason why President Trump is the worst President in modern history: Deliberately undermining people’s health care out of spite," Schiff wrote on Twitter.

 

[Red]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...97043e57a22_story.html?utm_term=.d96518525bae

Six physician groups are condemning a Trump administration decision to halt payments to insurers under the Obama-era health care law.

Their statement Friday calls on Congress to act immediately to restore the payments to prevent what it called “dramatic, if not catastrophic, increases in premiums across the country” and millions of Americans losing coverage.


The groups represent more than 560,000 U.S. doctors and medical students. They are the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American College of Physicians, the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Osteopathic Association and the American Psychiatric Association

 

[The Thriller]

There are too many variables that are different. The bigger problem is that our society has acquiesced to the idea that nobody directly pays for their healthcare and allow a third party to handle that, then somehow feel better about forming over more money to that third party so long as we never have to see the episodicity of healthcare costs. So the consumer isn’t directly having to pay >$1k a month on their Latuda or Pradaxa or other new, overrated, non-generic medication that may only be marginally better than something off the Walmart $4 list, so it keeps stupid medicines on the market (of course after the insurance company gives pushback by making the physician complete tedious prior authorization requests).

There’s an expensive process to bring a drug to market. They can then dump that cost into a system where nobody “notices” because no individual actually pays for it directly, but everyone suffers indirectly. Look, I hate insurance companies too, but the answer is society collectively rejecting these ideas and opting for something else, not by legislating everything that makes money out of business.

Every industrialized nation has acquiesced to the idea that nobody directly pays for their healthcare and allow 3rd parties to handle it. That's clearly not the problem.

Have you read "An American Illness" by Elisabeth Rosenthal?

 

[LogGrad98]

The mention of pharmaceuticals reminds me that this is where we should start. We should pass laws that require the pharmaceutical companies to charge in America no more than the lowest cost they charge in any European or Asian country. My son was on a medication that in the US supposedly cost us about $400 per month. In germany that same medication cost a little over $20 euros per month. I asked if that was the insurance negotiated rate and his neurologist looked at me like I was crazy. He said no that is the cost. The insurance covers it since it was necessary so we paid like 5 euros or something as out co-pay. Now how do they get away with that ****? Charge us $400 per month in the US, 20 bucks in the EU. That **** has got to change. They know that the medical system here is broken so it is the wild west in terms of what different medical entities can charge, hence the hospitals that charge $100 for a single dose of ibuprofen. It is a joke. Not a very funny one though.