Pop kicking Donald's ***

[Zombie]

I think the phone call is being blown out of proportion and it is based on the paraphrased recollection of a Democrat politician who heard part of the call on speaker phone.

The account of the phone call has been corroborated by the mother of the fallen soldier who was in the car as well for what it’s worth.

 

[franklin]

The fact that, in our current climate, to even have people listen to your opinion at all, you have to include the caveat I bolded above, is a clear sign exactly how divided and how irrational everyone's hatred has become. If you give the slightest inkling of anything that might be construed to have a hint of support for the current administration not only will your full opinion, regardless of its actual validity on its own merits, not just be disregarded, but attacked in ways that immediately devolve into personal attacks and claims of racism and worse. I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end of real public discourse in this country, where dissenting opinions could be expressed and discussed openly, without fear of instant and damaging retribution for holding a "wrong" opinion.


disclaimer: I am not a Trump supporter. This message should not be construed in any way shape or form to be an endorsement or support for any policy or stance remotely connected to Donald Trump or his constituency or administration.

I hate giving a caveat. Is this the pet peeve thread?

 

[franklin]

America was divided long before trump entered the political scene. To me it seems fairly obvious that it has gotten worse with each election. Clinton had a rough go, Bush was vilified, Obama couldn't do a single thing right and now people are mad the current President is even alive basically.

To be clear I am not a supporter of his. He has little to none of the qualities I want in a president and I hate a bunch of his policies like the wall and military service ban. I blame him for a large part of the current political climate. But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that those opposed to him are not adding to that environment. They are still responsible for their actions and words. It is gleefully being stoked by "leaders" and groups on both sides.

Even Pew research released an article saying that political ideology is now the single greatest divider in America. More than ethnicity, gender, nationality, economic status or religious ideology. Something that bad takes two antagonists to create.

We see it right here in JFC. There is not even the attempt to cover up the disdain for opposing views anymore.

America has been divided from the get go. Federalists, anti-Federalists, gun duals and all.

The way I see it, the leftist movement in the media created the alt-right movement and, let's call it, fox news style AM radio. Back in Reagan's era conservatives believed in using government for the betterment where they seen fit. Just like a modern "liberal". Then, the media machine started grabbing a lot of traction in revenue and growth and people of that era, you know, middle aged and older people who grew up in harsh conditions with the idea that life happens, started getting sick of all the over-the-top bleeding heart stories. Then AM radio came along and that crowd said "Ya know what, screw the government. All they want to do is create a nanny state.".

At that point, the right started the birth of the Tea Party/anarcho movement. The left spurned this growing ideology of not utilizing government and went to the jugular with their renewed (and continuation from the past few decades) fight on capital. Everything has escalated ever since to create the current political environment.

But it's still no different than it's ever been.

 

[Stoked]

The fact that, in our current climate, to even have people listen to your opinion at all, you have to include the caveat I bolded above, is a clear sign exactly how divided and how irrational everyone's hatred has become. If you give the slightest inkling of anything that might be construed to have a hint of support for the current administration not only will your full opinion, regardless of its actual validity on its own merits, not just be disregarded, but attacked in ways that immediately devolve into personal attacks and claims of racism and worse. I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end of real public discourse in this country, where dissenting opinions could be expressed and discussed openly, without fear of instant and damaging retribution for holding a "wrong" opinion.


disclaimer: I am not a Trump supporter. This message should not be construed in any way shape or form to be an endorsement or support for any policy or stance remotely connected to Donald Trump or his constituency or administration.

I think we are past the beginning of that. Look at how fast people rushed to judgment on both sides of the NFL protests. Those offended are straight up ignoring the players repeated statements that this is not about the military or vets. Or the allegations of racism against people who say they find it offensive to the military and vets. Take your pick. Immigration, guns, health insurance, education...

No one wants to listen to the other. At what point is it pushed to far?

 

[LogGrad98]

I hate giving a caveat. Is this the pet peeve thread?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to franklin again.

 

[LogGrad98]

I think we are past the beginning of that. Look at how fast people rushed to judgment on both sides of the NFL protests. Those offended are straight up ignoring the players repeated statements that this is not about the military or vets. Or the allegations of racism against people who say they find it offensive to the military and vets. Take your pick. Immigration, guns, health insurance, education...

No one wants to listen to the other. At what point is it pushed to far?

I agree. Again I put "beginning" to soften the stance somewhat, almost as a reflex. I would argue it is already too far. I have see friendships end over really minor things just because one guy is venomously opposed to Trump, so much so that my other friend, who is not a Trump supporter but is a fairly staunch conservative, had to be labeled "racist" and "nazi" and whatever else and didn't like that obviously. But in this climate there is no "talking sense" to anyone since the only version of "sense" they will accept is full-on religion-level devotion to their ideals, either that or you "deserve what you get". So they got into it one Saturday evening at a barbecue and they haven't spoken since. Ridiculous.

 

[gandalfe]

Let me guess Saint, you hate Trump said grab them by the *****, but probably went and rubbed one out to Eminem's free style, right?

Are you talking about President Eminem? Because, again, there's a difference between an entertainer and the "leader of the free world" (altho only 2 of those words are accurate).

 

[LogGrad98]

Are you talking about President Eminem? Because, again, there's a difference between an entertainer and the "leader of the free world" (altho only 2 of those words are accurate).

Umm....of and world?

 

[fishonjazz]

America was divided long before trump entered the political scene. To me it seems fairly obvious that it has gotten worse with each election. Clinton had a rough go, Bush was vilified, Obama couldn't do a single thing right and now people are mad the current President is even alive basically.

To be clear I am not a supporter of his. He has little to none of the qualities I want in a president and I hate a bunch of his policies like the wall and military service ban. I blame him for a large part of the current political climate. But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that those opposed to him are not adding to that environment. They are still responsible for their actions and words. It is gleefully being stoked by "leaders" and groups on both sides.

Even Pew research released an article saying that political ideology is now the single greatest divider in America. More than ethnicity, gender, nationality, economic status or religious ideology. Something that bad takes two antagonists to create.

We see it right here in JFC. There is not even the attempt to cover up the disdain for opposing views anymore.

Well I can only speak for myself. I thought bush was kind of a dummy but kept it mostly to myself.

Trump is simply so much worse.

 

[Red]

Maybe someday I'll find a way to post a comment shorter then book length, but not with this one obviously...

What one might call "political common sense" dictates that the winners of elections make strong efforts to reach out to the base or core of the losing side and attempt reconciliation, in the case of a President, attempt to be a President "for all Americans". Now, with all due respect to Trump supporters, that just never happened with Trump. And, in focusing as much as he has on the so-called "culture wars", this can only serve to exacerbate divisiveness. I should think, anyway.

Now, Obama haters or opponents will accuse Obama as having been every bit as divisive. As I recall however, if you want, "as my bias sees it", Mitch McConnell got on national TV the day after Obama won in 2008 and announced Republicans would never work with Obama. And, as I recall, that's exactly what happened, and the reason Obama too, like Trump now, governed more via executive order then in earlier administrations.

Of course divisiveness did not originate with Trump. In my own youth, as a college student in the 60's, the culture wars expressed themselves as "hippies vs. rednecks". That's overly simplistic, it's just too broad a subject for a thread on an internet board. But, clearly as I remember it, the still ongoing battle over what constituted patriotism, for instance, was fought in the anti Vietnam War/pro Vietnam War division that tore the country apart, all while the Civil Rights movement was also playing itself out. That whole era of extreme divisiveness is 50 years old now! At that time, "America, love it or leave it", became the battle cry of the side that I perceived to equate patriotism with what I would call "uber nationalism". To my mind, Trump is utilizing uber nationalism now in his effort to make athletes who kneel appear to be "unpatriotic". It's the reason I've used the nationalism vs patriotism quote from Timothy Snyder's essay "On Tyranny" to illustrate the difference between nationalism and patriotism.

But I don't want to push my side or my bias here. I'll just say of course divisiveness in America was not created by Trump. I do blame him for exacerbating it to the nth degree right now, but I recognize that people will and do see people like me as part of the problem, not the solution. We are at war with ourselves. Truthfully, this came as very unexpected to me personally. I never thought I would see another era as divisive as the Civil Rights and Vietnam War era. I was wrong. I was very wrong.

So, a look at the culture wars in historical context(Recall that Biden said recently we are "engaged in a struggle for the soul of America):

https://voices.uchicago.edu/religio...anding-the-american-culture-war-by-russell-d/

"In different ways, then, both “sides” of the emerging culture war latched onto the idea that the personal is political and the political is personal. That is why so many different realms of culture—education, law, film and television, sex and family life, churches and synagogues, news media, symbols like flags and monuments—could all be framed as battlefronts in the struggle to define America. The two sides are really two narratives about America; we can call these two narratives “social justice” and “traditional values.” The “social justice” narrative is of uneven progress toward greater equality, inclusion, and freedom of self-expression. That narrative ends with a summons to choose for yourself, stand up for the marginalized, and question established norms. The “traditional values” narrative is of decline from religious faithfulness, independence, and moral absolutes. That narrative ends with a summons to cultivate virtue, return to time-tested wisdom, and preserve civilizing institutions. As they have been told since the sixties, both narratives presuppose that changes in one area of culture have effects—sometimes ripples, sometimes shockwaves—on all the others. One song can ignite a revolution. One pill can change a generation. One story can sustain a community. This wide scope, the high stakes, and the ability of the two narratives to connect seemingly disparate dots have contributed to the pervasiveness and longevity of the culture war framework."

 

[LogGrad98]

Well I can only speak for myself. I thought bush was kind of a dummy but kept it mostly to myself.

Trump is simply so much worse.

By the Forrest Gump standard Trump is far stupider than Bush. Stupid is as stupid does.

Bush may have come across as stupid but he was smart in how he approached situations and handled issues and dealt politically even if you disagreed with him. Again that is how he was painted by the media, that he was a dumb country bumpkin, and his lack of verbal grace accentuated that impression. Trump however is dangerously stupid. Like the drunk guy who just got into a fight with his girlfriend and insists he can drive himself home on the freeway in his jacked up 4x4. Mixing impaired, pissed off, and compensating for something is never a good thing. That guy is out to kill someone, he just may not know it and isn't sure who, but someone gonna die.

 

[fishonjazz]

By the Forrest Gump standard Trump is far stupider than Bush. Stupid is as stupid does.

Bush may have come across as stupid but he was smart in how he approached situations and handled issues and dealt politically even if you disagreed with him. Again that is how he was painted by the media, that he was a dumb country bumpkin, and his lack of verbal grace accentuated that impression. Trump however is dangerously stupid. Like the drunk guy who just got into a fight with his girlfriend and insists he can drive himself home on the freeway in his jacked up 4x4. Mixing impaired, pissed off, and compensating for something is never a good thing. That guy is out to kill someone, he just may not know it and isn't sure who, but someone gonna die.

Ya I thought of bush as a dumb country bumpkin (good way to put it btw) but didn't think he did a bad job as president overall. I didn't really have a beef with him other than Iraq but I don't believe he simply decided to invade Iraq and all his advisors/cabinet/etc were telling him that is a bad idea and he just did it anyway. I believe a big decision like that (starting a war) is a group decision and the blame shouldn't fall on bush alone.

Overall I didn't have an issue bush.

 

[Harambe]

Yeah, I just said they rigged it.

Unless that was meant for people reading what I said.

It was meant as backing up what you said. I'm sorry you assumed it wasn't.

 

[franklin]

Ya I thought of bush as a dumb country bumpkin (good way to put it btw) but didn't think he did a bad job as president overall. I didn't really have a beef with him other than Iraq but I don't believe he simply decided to invade Iraq and all his advisors/cabinet/etc were telling him that is a bad idea and he just did it anyway. I believe a big decision like that (starting a war) is a group decision and the blame shouldn't fall on bush alone.

Overall I didn't have an issue bush.

Bush was far from stupid but he was a bit naive because his character tends to lend that trait. I've found him to be the most down to earth, humble president of the four I've been old enough to cycle through and the ones I've read about. I think Clinton and Obama were genuine and should be well respected for their extremely hard work in a tough, stressful environment, but I don't think they hold a candle to GBII's genuineness. Every president has a bit of power hunger. Clinton and Obama definitely had it, but GWB seemed to be the guy who wanted the leadership power but still wanted to be that guy who is an every day American who happened to be born into a powerful family, a family that kept their humility and ground roots in spite of their power. GBI and Laura Bush were and have been class acts. It was so annoying when the media attacked Mrs. Bush (A Donald creator move).

I have a huge amount of respect for that man as a person. Clinton and Obama are a little bit harder for me on that level although I still like them both.

 

[porcupinetree]

Pop went off on Trump again?

Wow, how in the world is Trump still president with such a powerful man speaking out against him?

Maybe Pop (and Lebron) should have spoken up BEFORE the election...then Trump definitely would have lost.

Oh wait....

 

[The Thriller]

So funny to see Bush now criticized for being “too liberal.”

In just the past month I’ve seen Trump and his ilk attack McConnell, Mccain, and now Bush. The right is tearing itself apart. No leadership, no agenda (aside from attacking minorities, promoting deregulation, and passing tax cuts), and no progress.

How’s that forgotten man thingie workin out? Are all those poor factory workers back to work making good money without college degrees yet?

 

[LogGrad98]

So funny to see Bush now criticized for being “too liberal.”

In just the past month I’ve seen Trump and his ilk attack McConnell, Mccain, and now Bush. The right is tearing itself apart. No leadership, no agenda (aside from attacking minorities, promoting deregulation, and passing tax cuts), and no progress.

How’s that forgotten man thingie workin out? Are all those poor factory workers back to work making good money without college degrees yet?

Hopefully the left follows suit and we end up with a more level playing field in national politics rather than 2 overweight and out of touch behemoths dragging everyone else through the **** of their endless ridiculous fight.

 

[porcupinetree]

How’s that forgotten man thingie workin out? Are all those poor factory workers back to work making good money without college degrees yet?

well, today it was announced that jobless claims are at its lowest level since 1973....but WHERE'S THE PROGRESS!!!!

Maybe you should sent Obama a letter and tell him that you want him to go back to the white house and be president again.

 

[Harambe]

well, today it was announced that jobless claims are at its lowest level since 1973....but WHERE'S THE PROGRESS!!!!

Maybe you should sent Obama a letter and tell him that you want him to go back to the white house and be president again.

Please, go on.

 

[Harambe]

What exactly went in to the jobless claims that made the rate so low?