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13 Russian nationals indicted

That's an interesting twist.

Trump and his ilk still won't believe it because Putin insisted it didn't happen. And nothing will change.
 
Both sides have been played so hard. If only people could step back and recognize this. But I have little hope that's what will happen. Both sides are far more likely to re-trench and claim that this development proves that they are right and their opposition was wrong.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Both sides have been played so hard. If only people could step back and recognize this. But I have little hope that's what will happen. Both sides are far more likely to re-trench and claim that this development proves that they are right and their opposition was wrong.
Click to expand...

I suppose it's just a coincidence that one side has been trying to discredit the investigation and get it stopped completely.

But go ahead and stick your head back in the sand where it's comfortable, while chanting "fake news" to drown out the sound of any truth.
 
freakazoid said:
I suppose it's just a coincidence that one side has been trying to discredit the investigation and get it stopped completely.

But go ahead and stick your head back in the sand where it's comfortable, while chanting "fake news" to drown out the sound of any truth.
Click to expand...
The anti-Trump crowd has made a huge deal of how this investigation will take his presidency down because, to them, collusion is the only possible explanation for how such a cretin got elected. The pro-Trump crowd has responded by suggesting that the investigation is nothing more than a witch hunt. Meanwhile, the investigation has finally borne some fruit, and it neither implicates Trump in collusion as the left was hoping, nor vindicates the administration as the right was hoping. Instead it shows how a foreign power used us as weapons against ourselves... but sadly most people are reacting by continuing with more of the same behavior. Rational commentators are few and far between.

I've listened to this story on MSNBC, CNN and Fox on satellite radio. Very few of the commentators I've heard have presented the story rationally. Instead they've further entrenched themselves on the side of the debate they had already taken, and attacked the intelligence, morals and anything else they can think of on the other side. Trump has already tweeted that he is vindicated (not true) and MSNBC is repeatedly playing tapes where Trump told followers that the collusion story is fake news, and then they are implying that yesterday's revelations prove that the collusion story is not fake news (not true either). It's too bad that these people are not talking about how patient, strategic and brilliant the Russians have been at sewing discord among their enemies. They are chess players for sure. Meanwhile, Trump and the vast majority of our media seem to be playing tic-tac-toe.

Those who hope to take Trump down at any cost still might be proven entirely right. It's possible that although this prong of the investigation did not implicate him or anyone associated with his campaign, a future revelation might completely take them down. For my part, the way the Muller team handled yesterday's event increased my confidence in them. And I will admit that although I am not a fan of the president, my confidence in the investigation was previously very low. Although I should not allow it to be a factor, the rabid salivation on the left sometimes has the effect of causing me to want them to be proven wrong.

On a side note, I'm fascinated by the bang for the buck that the Russians got. Their budget is reported to be slightly over $1 million a month for a couple of years. That is a fraction of a drop in the bucket of what the candidates spent.
 
This makes things awkward.

Dump should enforce the sanctions against Russia that Congress overwhelmingly passed.

But he won't.

Dump should step up cyber security to prevent yet another Pearl Harbor like cyber attack on American Democracy.

But he won't.

Gee, I wonder why?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
The anti-Trump crowd has made a huge deal of how this investigation will take his presidency down because, to them, collusion is the only possible explanation for how such a cretin got elected. The pro-Trump crowd has responded by suggesting that the investigation is nothing more than a witch hunt. Meanwhile, the investigation has finally borne some fruit, and it neither implicates Trump in collusion as the left was hoping, nor vindicates the administration as the right was hoping. Instead it shows how a foreign power used us as weapons against ourselves... but sadly most people are reacting by continuing with more of the same behavior. Rational commentators are few and far between.

I've listened to this story on MSNBC, CNN and Fox on satellite radio. Very few of the commentators I've heard have presented the story rationally. Instead they've further entrenched themselves on the side of the debate they had already taken, and attacked the intelligence, morals and anything else they can think of on the other side. Trump has already tweeted that he is vindicated (not true) and MSNBC is repeatedly playing tapes where Trump told followers that the collusion story is fake news, and then they are implying that yesterday's revelations prove that the collusion story is not fake news (not true either). It's too bad that these people are not talking about how patient, strategic and brilliant the Russians have been at sewing discord among their enemies. They are chess players for sure. Meanwhile, Trump and the vast majority of our media seem to be playing tic-tac-toe.

Those who hope to take Trump down at any cost still might be proven entirely right. It's possible that although this prong of the investigation did not implicate him or anyone associated with his campaign, a future revelation might completely take them down. For my part, the way the Muller team handled yesterday's event increased my confidence in them. And I will admit that although I am not a fan of the president, my confidence in the investigation was previously very low. Although I should not allow it to be a factor, the rabid salivation on the left sometimes has the effect of causing me to want them to be proven wrong.

On a side note, I'm fascinated by the bang for the buck that the Russians got. Their budget is reported to be slightly over $1 million a month for a couple of years. That is a fraction of a drop in the bucket of what the candidates spent.
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Dude. Post like THIS more...
 
The Thriller said:
This makes things awkward.

Dump should enforce the sanctions against Russia that Congress overwhelmingly passed.

But he won't.

Dump should step up cyber security to prevent yet another Pearl Harbor like cyber attack on American Democracy.

But he won't.

Gee, I wonder why?
Click to expand...

Of course Russia meddled in our election. It would be ridiculous to think they wouldn't it is the job of the United States government to counter their subversion. I don't think that them trying to interfere in our election something they have always done(and something we do) is what we should pull the sanctions card for.

1 I don't think that Russia was the deciding factor in the election.

2 in a way this is the Obama administration's failure. They kind of dropped the ball

3 most importantly this isn't about whether or not Russia wants to influence our election(duh) this is about whether or not the current president of the United States colluded with a foreign power to influence our election. That's straight up traitor s*** in the Benedict Arnold kind of way, not the Whistleblower kind of way . I think that's what happened. If it can be proved the f***** should be sent to prison for the rest of his Natural Life.
 
So the way I heard it, Mueller says no Americans knowingly "colluded" or interacted with the Russians to influence the election. I believe there were no actual solicitations for help from Trump, but Hillary is another matter. Well ahead of the election, it was globally believed she had the nod from the Am/Brit elites and would of course be elected, and all kinds of "furriners" were scrambling to chip in something to help her, in full expectation of favorable influence with her. She exploited the Sec State office in a number of "deals" to get "furriner contributions" to her foundation which could be tapped for the campaign if necessary, or used on whatever pet project the Clintons could see any purpose in.

But of course, Mueller, a long-time known Hillary supporter/colluder himself, could not bring himself to acknowledge the open facts there.

The Trumpsters expected Mueller to push fabricated evidence and make charges against him in any possible way he could devise.

I think it was a strategic decision on his part, made only when Trump caved on the budget and betrayed his electoral base on all his promises to make significant changes.

I don't know if Trump really did do anything, probably not on the scale Hillary did, but he's "their boy" now, and will play ball with the left, giving in on whatever their agenda is.

I think we're gonna have a huge economic recession/crash/depression now, and I'm not gonna vote for Trump next time.
 
♪alt13 said:
Of course Russia meddled in our election. It would be ridiculous to think they wouldn't it is the job of the United States government to counter their subversion. I don't think that them trying to interfere in our election something they have always done(and something we do) is what we should pull the sanctions card for.

1 I don't think that Russia was the deciding factor in the election.

2 in a way this is the Obama administration's failure. They kind of dropped the ball

3 most importantly this isn't about whether or not Russia wants to influence our election(duh) this is about whether or not the current president of the United States colluded with a foreign power to influence our election. That's straight up traitor s*** in the Benedict Arnold kind of way, not the Whistleblower kind of way . I think that's what happened. If it can be proved the f***** should be sent to prison for the rest of his Natural Life.
Click to expand...
Excellent post. I'm on the other side of the argument at the conclusion (I don't think he colluded), but if he did, lock him up.
 
babe said:
So the way I heard it, Mueller says no Americans knowingly "colluded" or interacted with the Russians to influence the election. I believe there were no actual solicitations for help from Trump, but Hillary is another matter. Well ahead of the election, it was globally believed she had the nod from the Am/Brit elites and would of course be elected, and all kinds of "furriners" were scrambling to chip in something to help her, in full expectation of favorable influence with her. She exploited the Sec State office in a number of "deals" to get "furriner contributions" to her foundation which could be tapped for the campaign if necessary, or used on whatever pet project the Clintons could see any purpose in.

But of course, Mueller, a long-time known Hillary supporter/colluder himself, could not bring himself to acknowledge the open facts there.

The Trumpsters expected Mueller to push fabricated evidence and make charges against him in any possible way he could devise.

I think it was a strategic decision on his part, made only when Trump caved on the budget and betrayed his electoral base on all his promises to make significant changes.

I don't know if Trump really did do anything, probably not on the scale Hillary did, but he's "their boy" now, and will play ball with the left, giving in on whatever their agenda is.

I think we're gonna have a huge economic recession/crash/depression now, and I'm not gonna vote for Trump next time.
Click to expand...
Interesting take. So you think the indictments we just learned of effectively conclude the investigation? I don't. I think it's entirely possible that there are eventually more indictments that do involve Americans.

If this really is some sort of deal that Trump made, what do you believe he is getting out of it? It sounds like you think his main gain is relief from a fabricated investigation. And how did Trump get Republican majorities to support this anti-Republican buudget agenda that Mueller forces pushed on him?

I'm not saying that you're wrong because I can conceive of such a thing happening, particularly if Trump has no moral compass (and I don't believe that he does). I'm also reminded of a circumstance involving a close family member who was forced to make a calculated decision to accept a sanction he did not deserve in order to avoid the potential of a major public humiliation. But Trump is not like the family member I'm referring to. To me Trump is a major narcissist who loves conflict and chaos. He craves attention, both negative and positive. I have heard many of his critics claim that he is thin skinned because he responds to everything, but I think the reality is that he is thick skinned and enjoys proving it.

I do not think the Mueller investigation is over, and I fully expect Trump to remain engaged and fighting. He will continue to act as if every development is all about him because that is who he is and what he does. I think you are wrong that he's made a deal.
 
@Joe: I'd think by now you'd know my gig in here is to do opposition ideas to whatever I imagine people are thinking, really off-the-cuff stuff. It's not about who or what is right, but about not getting set on some damn idea or another.

I developed this attitude when my childhood idol, Henry E. Eyring, turned out to be an idiot when I worked for him. Stuff I thought anyone would just know, like common sense stuff.... and he was the one who told stories on Albert Einstein "not knowing beans". He related the incident on the following terms..... he was at Princeton where he worked with and was friends with Einstein. One day they were walking across the commons where some groundskeepers had actually planted some beans. Einstein asked Eyring what those plants were, generating the legend Eyring told the rest of his life "Einstein didn't know beans".

I don't care who you are, it's not time to stop thinking yet.

#NoSuchThingAsSettledScience
 
I actually don't know Trump or anything about the people inside the Washington Beltway, or on the screens of mainstream media.
I know how to wipe my own ***, that's about it.

And I really have cold-blooded contempt for knowitalls who want to make damn sure the world rolls their way.
 
I don't believe in the logical construct you are describing. Most Rs and not ideological or committed principled Rs.... We have, really, pretty much a one-party good 'ol boy power network, with a general sense of a progressive(fascist/ideologically extreme left evolving megagovernment with an agenda quite at odds with the hoi paloi ignoramuses of whatever stripe or color. The contempt these self-styled "elites" have for common people, whatever their rhetoric, is immense. We are Trailer Trash who must not interfere with Plans.

Trump found the votes from the Trailer Trash, but he's really not one of us. He might be poking his thumb in the Establishment Eye (CBS???), but it's a shtick, a throwaway to his "base". He knows he really can't do anything without the Bigs. He's not about to lick anyone's boots, but he has no central belief center that guides him in his dealmaking.


I think my favorite talk show host is Sonnie Johnson, of Sonnie's Corner, on Patriot125 weekends.

 
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If Hillary were to be locked up, taking away the “Der Ewige Jude” from you fascists, who would you blame for everything? Lebron James?

It’s incredible how “powerful” and “competent” the Clintons are to you guys. So scary! They must be doing something right to still bug you guys. To most everyone else, they’re politically irrelevant. Bill can’t run again and hillary’s political career is done. So why does anyone give a damn about them?

Much like how your side constantly blasts the government for its inability to run health care or education yet perfectly capable in staging fake moon landings, Presidential assassinations, bombings of federal buildings in Oklahoma, New York, and DC, and the killing of ambassadors in Benghazi.

It’s just astonishing to me. That Hillary clinton is still making headlines for republicans. I guess they cooked up 8 years of anti-Hillary stuff in the storage and don’t want it all to go to waste.
 
DasJazz said:
So since we know Hillary did in fact collude and pay for a fake dossier, we should lock her up for sure, right?
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Is the right still rubbing this one? Man isn’t it sore yet? I thought the right gave up on this one and the whole
Uranium one scandal months ago. Is Hannity still claiming that Hillary colluded with Russia and killed Seth Rich? Or how about how Oklahoma City was really an inside job to make gun nuts look crazy (Alex Jones)?
 
The Thriller said:
Is the right still rubbing this one? Man isn’t it sore yet? I thought the right gave up on this one and the whole
Uranium one scandal months ago. Is Hannity still claiming that Hillary colluded with Russia and killed Seth Rich? Or how about how Oklahoma City was really an inside job to make gun nuts look crazy (Alex Jones)?
Click to expand...

Spade is a spade my friend. If you can't see how corrupt that woman or that family for that matter is, than I don't know what to tell you. I simply notice that certain posters here can't get over a blind hatred (brainwashed by media) of Trump. Can't take for one moment that maybe, just maybe all this nonsense was drummed up to slander a political opponent in the hopes of winning an election.

It's actually quite funny to me how people can be so one sided. I know it's the mainstream thing to hate your current president but that's just like being on a plane and hoping the pilot crashes simply cause you're not a fan of his for whatever reason.

Liberalism is a disease and its plain as day how bad certain folks have contracted it. Unfortunate really.
 
The Thriller said:
If Hillary were to be locked up, taking away the “Der Ewige Jude” from you fascists, who would you blame for everything? Lebron James?

It’s incredible how “powerful” and “competent” the Clintons are to you guys. So scary! They must be doing something right to still bug you guys. To most everyone else, they’re politically irrelevant. Bill can’t run again and hillary’s political career is done. So why does anyone give a damn about them?

Much like how your side constantly blasts the government for its inability to run health care or education yet perfectly capable in staging fake moon landings, Presidential assassinations, bombings of federal buildings in Oklahoma, New York, and DC, and the killing of ambassadors in Benghazi.

It’s just astonishing to me. That Hillary clinton is still making headlines for republicans. I guess they cooked up 8 years of anti-Hillary stuff in the storage and don’t want it all to go to waste.
Click to expand...
You are such an idiot.
 
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