More Mitchell Love
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I haven't looked, but weren't MCW's efficiency numbers terrible in his rookie year? Simmons numbers are solid.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I could see him averaging those numbers by next year.
I'm curious to see what his offensive ceiling is if he doesn't fix his shot though--it's truly horrible. In practice he shoots with his feet way too close together (almost touching), his elbow is out way too far, and many think he's actually shooting with the wrong hand (wtf). Like, he makes Rondo look like Curry in that regard. Iirc, he's only shooting 3% from beyond 16 feet lol. If he doesn't ever fix his shot, I'm not sure he'll ever average much more than 20 PPG.
Mitchell on the other hand--I have no doubts about his ability to improve. He has no major weaknesses. I could see him averaging 25/5/5 next year, and thus the Mitchell/Simmons debate will continue.
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spycam1
Well-Known Member
His overall shooting is really inefficient. He shot around 40%. But he was a much better 3 point shooter and Free throw Shooter than Simmons. He also played on a really bad team with bad spacing. But overall they are pretty similar and match up on number comparisons.
I think Simmons is much better but that doesnt mean their numbers dont match up. I also think if Simmons cant learn to shoot outside the paint teams will adjust more and more and make him less and less effective. Unless he switches to PF.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
MCW 16.7 ppg, 6.3 assists, 6.2 rebounds, 1.9 steals, 3.5 TOV
Ben 15.8 ppg, 8.1 assists, 8.0 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 3.4 TOV
MCW shot worse from the field but he also shot from outside the paint. Ben's shooting numbers are more akin to Goberts since they are all at the rim. MCW was a much better jump shooter and Free throw shooter.
MCW 70% from FT, Ben 56%.
FYI Shaq was a better ft shooter his rookie year than simmons.
Ben 15.8 ppg, 8.1 assists, 8.0 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 3.4 TOV
MCW shot worse from the field but he also shot from outside the paint. Ben's shooting numbers are more akin to Goberts since they are all at the rim. MCW was a much better jump shooter and Free throw shooter.
MCW 70% from FT, Ben 56%.
FYI Shaq was a better ft shooter his rookie year than simmons.
Et tu Brute
Well-Known Member
I think you are starting to troll with this beef.
Hmmm. Simmons doesn't shoot threes. MCW had one of the worst eFG% in the league at 43%. Simmons is pretty much league average, 10 points higher. There is no real comparison between their advanced stats. Simmons also dishes out 2 more assists, and grabs 2 more rebounds. They also play very differently. It's a pretty terrible comparison.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
Yes, if you ignore the fact that MCW shot 40.2% from the field and Simmons is at 53.9%. Simmons is a transcendent player who affects the game in multiple ways. Mitchell is just a very good rookie who needs to score to make his mark.
I don't agree with Mitchell being just a good rookie. He's a transcendent player. He can score in a plethora of ways, on top of being able to defend. His efficiency will, without a question, go up as he gains experience. Imagine someone like James Harden, but with good D. That's a top 15 player of all time. The jury is still out on whether Simmons can appreciably improve his shot. Without that, his ceiling is more limited, since outside shooting is important, and stat stuffing is over-rated.
I think I'd rather have Mitchell on my team for the future. Although Simmons is also great, and he probably has been the better player this season.
They get the most similar similarity scores on searches for past players. But Simmons is smarter in that he doesnt shoot outside the paint or his percentages would be worse than that. If he played on a garbage team that needed points like MCW they would be the same.
If you run their numbers here are the only comparisons:
https://www.basketball-reference.co...tat=trb_per_g&c4comp=gt&c4val=6.2&order_by=ws
Obviously he isnt in the same conversation scoring wise as Oscar who was almost putting up 2x the points per game. He isnt far off from Magic but he is just as close to MCW. Magic could shoot so I would not really compare those two either. Magic had a jump shot, could shoot the three and makes FTs. That leaves the most similar player. A guy who could not shoot(although MCW still shot because he was on a garbage team) but played good defense, rebounded and dished the ball out well.
80% of Simmons shots are at the rim or in the paint. That brings those efficiency numbers up just like it does for Gobert. It is nice to play on a really good team where Simmons have the luxury of being the 3rd highest scorer on the team with a 4th player basically scoring the same amount per game as him.
According to the link, Simmons has a fantastic 8.1 WS, compared to MCW's 1.3. Simmons eFG% is higher than Robertson or Magic. TS% is 7 points higher, altho MCW only took 100 more shots his rookie season. The rest about how he'd play on a **** team is just speculation. The numbers don't match up at all. I don't see Simmons jacking up 3 pointers at a 15% clip regardless of team. Simmons is a vastly better player. I bet I can make that comparison between any two random players if I get to speculate about how they'd play under different circumstances, and massage the numbers a bit.
Who would you compare him to?
Also you never said what your user name on the 76ers board.
Honestly there is not really a comparison for Simmons. There has never been a player that is on his level as a rookie at passing, handling the ball and playing defense that simply cant shoot at all. There has never been a player like him as bad at FTs.
I guess if you drop his empty rebounds (almost all of them are uncontested) then you could find some players more similar. Maybe more in the mold of a taller Elfrid Payton? Good defender, good passer but cant shoot? Although Simmons is better his rookie year.
There has never been a rookie to shoot below 70% from 3, above 50% from the field and average more than 5 assists per game.
There are differences.
I would like to see you find a more similar player.
There has never been a rookie to shoot below 70% from 3, above 50% from the field and average more than 5 assists per game. Besides Simmons.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
You love all our players and now to make your argument, simply dismiss those around Mitchell. You can't have it both ways.
I dont love all our players.
Also that comparison comment was discussing MCW vs Simmons.
But yes offensively Mitchell has a much larger burden than Simmons. And if I want it both ways I can have it both ways.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
I didn't say good. I said very good. And calling Mitchell transcendent is laughable. Sorry but it is.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
Whatevs. Carry on then. I have no energy or interest arguing with someone who can't be objective.