Jazz Free Agency Summer of 2018

[Handlogten's Heros]

That is a good example of someone that doesnt have traditional basketball athleticism but had elite athletic abilities that he used to be an elite player. The way he could flick his wrist and throw a rocket pass was very athletic and was a very elite ability based on his elite athleticism.

Strong as an ox too... ask anyone who tried to run through his picks.

 

[RandyForRubio]

I hope he keeps improving, but I have a feeling his shooting may revert back to the norm a bit. Like HH alluded to, other teams might go for younger prospects in a point guard and aren't likely to offer him much more than the $20m range. You said he could get $25m.

I hope we can get him for $18m or less. Any more than than and I'd rather stick with Exum and grab a next level player and pay him/her more than $25m.

Explain calling Tim Duncan “solid”.

 

[colton]

So correct my mistakes here. The Jazz currently have....

Guards
Rubio, Mitchell, Stockton, Burks, Allen

Wings
Oneal, Crowder, Thabo, Ingles,

Bigs
Gobert, Favors, Bradley

That is 12 players, plus team options on Udoh & Jerebko. And RFA's Neto & Exum.

That's up to 16 players.

Something's gotta give.

Not to mention signing a player using MLE space, which I still think is likely to happen.

 

[elan_prodigy]

Some of it is. Some of it is that he has really good hand speed. He picks peoples pockets all the time with quick hands. He has really good reaction time and initial quickness. He isnt explosive or fast though. There are lots and lots of different ways to be athletic and Ingles uses the ones he is good at very well.

Explain how there are "lots and lots of different ways" to be athletic.

You either are or you aren't.

Having a quick mind is one thing but it has nothing to do with athleticism.

Being athletic is a general term and overall a meaningless one. You can define being athletic in lots of ways and a lot of people arent going to be good at all of them.

Its not a yes or no question if someone is athletic. It is a lot more nuanced than that. There are some ways that being athletic is more visible or noticeable in basketball because they are more useful than other ways of being athletic. You could be a very "athletic" in one sport and not another.

Does Jumping high make you athletic? Yes, but some people can jump high but are really slow sprinters or have a slow first step. Some people can jump high but it takes them awhile to get that high jump. Some people dont jump high but they jump really fast and can repeatedly jump fast which is also athletic, this is called rate of force development and some people are elite at it but cant jump that high. Some people have a quick first step but are slow after that. Some people have a slow first step but are really fast after that. Some people have fast reaction times and are cant jump high. Being strong is athletic but strong does not equate other athletic things always. I could give lots of other examples.

There are set tests that are a general predictor of ones athletic ability for a sport. But those dont mean you are a good or bad athlete. They are just broad predictors. There is no way to predict how you will use your bodies tools to be good at a sport. All humans have different strengths and weaknesses. You can be athletic in one way and unathletic in another way.

I disagree.

If you can jump high but are slow at ****, you aren't athletic (relative to NBA).

If you are really fast but cant jump, you aren't athletic (relative to NBA).

 

[Elizah Huge]

It’s painful reading this and acting like just because Rubio hypothetically doesn’t make the all-star game means he isn’t an all-star caliber player.

 

[colton]

I disagree.

If you can jump high but are slow at ****, you aren't athletic (relative to NBA).

If you are really fast but cant jump, you aren't athletic (relative to NBA).

So, was John Stockton athletic?

 

[elan_prodigy]

Some of it is. Some of it is that he has really good hand speed. He picks peoples pockets all the time with quick hands. He has really good reaction time and initial quickness. He isnt explosive or fast though. There are lots and lots of different ways to be athletic and Ingles uses the ones he is good at very well.

Explain how there are "lots and lots of different ways" to be athletic.

You either are or you aren't.

Having a quick mind is one thing but it has nothing to do with athleticism.

You can be -

Strong
Jump really high
Have high top line speed
Have lower top line speed but change directions and speeds well (Harden is elite at slowing down and stopping... shows on his step backs and a lot of his drives)
Be extremely physically coordinated
Quick feet (lateral movement)

There are lots of traits with athleticism. there is also raw track meet athleticism and functional athleticism.

I think "athleticism" when referring to the NBA has a different meaning than when applying to the general public.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I hope he keeps improving, but I have a feeling his shooting may revert back to the norm a bit. Like HH alluded to, other teams might go for younger prospects in a point guard and aren't likely to offer him much more than the $20m range. You said he could get $25m.

I hope we can get him for $18m or less. Any more than than and I'd rather stick with Exum and grab a next level player and pay him/her more than $25m.

So when I said "Personally I think Rubio will get an extension with us around 18-20 million a year sometime this year." that was ridiculous? To which you replied "You lost me at Rubio for $20m."

I said if improves a lot he could get around that but my prediction is 18-20.

That is what started this whole conversation.

But again you have not predicted what you think he will get. You just said you hope to get him for less. What do you think he will be offered by the Jazz? I also hope to get him for less that does not mean what I think will happen.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Not to mention signing a player using MLE space, which I still think is likely to happen.

If that happens it is likely both Jonas and Udoh are gone... depending on where Exum comes in we'd be over or dangerously close to the tax. So picking up Bjelica likely means Udoh and Jonas options are gone.

 

[elan_prodigy]

So, was John Stockton athletic?

In an NBA sense, no.

 

[The Midnight]

So when I said "Personally I think Rubio will get an extension with us around 18-20 million a year sometime this year." that was ridiculous? To which you replied "You lost me at Rubio for $20m."

I said if improves a lot he could get around that but my prediction is 18-20.

That is what started this whole conversation.

But again you have not predicted what you think he will get. You just said you hope to get him for less. What do you think he will be offered by the Jazz? I also hope to get him for less that does not mean what I think will happen.

Um, you said he could get $25m... LOL..

Whatever man I've spent wayy too much time with you today. Remind me not to do that again. Complete waste of my time.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Um, you said he could get $25m... LOL..

Whatever man I've spent wayy too much time with you today. Remind me not to do that again. Complete waste of my time.

Dude, he could easily get 20M. That’s what we offered Hill.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

In an NBA sense, no.

But... he played in the NBA... wasn't like he was a gold medal track and field guy.

If you bend the definition to a nebulous definition that you determine then it really isn't meaningful. Strength, speed, jumping ability, coordination, flexibility are all part of athleticism and all are beneficial on the basketball court.

 

[infection]

I love IT's heart and unconquerable spirit. If he stays healthy he could make Orlando really fun to watch. In the Anemia East he might even push his way into an all-star game.

Is he not an upgrade to Neto? Could he not be our instant offense off the bench?

 

[Ron Mexico]

I think "athleticism" when referring to the NBA has a different meaning than when applying to the general public.

I am not discussing the general public I am discussing professional athletes.

 

[The Midnight]

Dude, he could easily get 20M. That’s what we offered Hill.

I dunno how much of that was about trying to keep Hayward happy though? Would we do that in another situation?

 

[elan_prodigy]

But... he played in the NBA... wasn't like he was a gold medal track and field guy.

If you bend the definition to a nebulous definition that you determine then it really isn't meaningful. Strength, speed, jumping ability, coordination, flexibility are all part of athleticism and all are beneficial on the basketball court.

Everything is relative.

I can define anything how I like, its just my opinion and as he relates to other NBA players, no he wasn't athletic.

 

[elan_prodigy]

I am not discussing the general public I am discussing professional athletes.

No **** sherlock. So am I.

Im comparing him against his peers.

 

[mellow]

Hoopshype shows David Stockton as guaranteed contract. Is that correct?

I'm a long time jazz fan and a sucker for nostalgia and sentimentality, but keeping him doesn't make sense to me.

If Rubio is a PG and Neto is a PG (who is also Rudy's best friend), and Grayson, Exum, and Mitchell all play the 1 or 2 that is a solid stable of Guards.

The other perplexity is paying Udoh and Bradley to be back-up Centers when you are paying Rudy and Favors alot of money. Those two seem to duplicate each other as teh low-paid project we hope never has to play.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Um, you said he could get $25m... LOL..

Whatever man I've spent wayy too much time with you today. Remind me not to do that again. Complete waste of my time.

He could if he greatly improved. I just quoted what my prediction was from the post you originally quoted. You are really struggling with this word if. Do they not use that in NZ? Maybe this discussion is a language barrier and not you just being obtuse.

Again you are avoiding making a prediction and running away scared. Its fine ill move on. You dont want to be on record guessing what he will get, you just want to make fun of other peoples predictions. Well, make fun of stuff that is not their prediction and ignore their real prediction.