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2019 trade deadline discussion

Handlogten's Heros said:
I will start the process though... it's kind of the same cast of characters -

- Niko - though it seems less likely NO would trade him with Boogie gone
- Tobias Harris - Clips realize they suck early and Harris won't stay... take Favs and a first or Crowder/Exum or something like that for Harris
- Otto Porter - Washington realizes they suck early and that Dwightbola virus has infected the team... decide to cut they salary and move Porter.
- Jabari Parker - He accepts QO and gets moved cuz him and Milwaukee hate each other or gets signed to Atlanta or Sacramento and they have buyer's remorse.
- Paul Millsap - Denver realizes it aint working and move him for Favs and expirings to get all the way under the tax plus some minor asset (a first, Bradley)
- Aaron Gordon - Orlando realizes it aint working (there is a theme here) and they like Jonathan Isaac at the 4... trade Gordon for exum, expirings and a first (prolly too much if Exum is healthy, but oh well)
- Spencer Dinwiddie/Malcolm Brogdnon/Tomas Satoransky - why these guys... low cap holds for next year... so we can use our space and then re-sign them later... these guys are only candidates if Exum/Allen ain't cutting it and we want extra juice at the 1 or 2.
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Favors>Millsap. And he's younger. And he's STILL improving. And he's a helluva lot cheaper.

I'd take Tobias but not for Favors. G-F-T would be a great big man rotation that could fill up all 96 minutes. Add in Udoh, Thabo and Jae for depth and Utah could lower the bigs' minutes all season and keep them healthy.

Exum, draft pick, filler for Tobias.

Rubio, Neto, Allen
DM, Ingles, Burks
Ingles, O'Neale, Thabo, Jae
Favors(16), Harris(20), Thabo, Jae (12 combined minutes)
Gobert (30) Favors(10), Udoh (8)

2 roster spots open to solidify the shooting guard position.
 
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TheStormofWar said:
Now, some of the obvious issues of playing time were mitigated by the fact Favors and Gobert couldn't be long on the court at the same time due to stretching issues at the 4.
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Yeah, dude. Utah's top 5 man unit that was a whopping +/- 101 and wins 67.5% of the time needs to be mitigated cuz spacking an stuff guis. QS didn't make it work! A +/- 26 points higher than GSW's best lineup that wins slightly less NEEDS. TO. BE. MITIGATED. Sell Favors for stretch 4 this is not working!

I honestly wonder if there are more than a dozen people here who actually watch Utah play. The Favors contract extension thread says a resounding yes.
 
idestroyedthetoilet said:
Yeah, dude. Utah's top 5 man unit that was a whopping +/- 101 and wins 67.5% of the time needs to be mitigated cuz spacking an stuff guis. QS didn't make it work! A +/- 26 points higher than GSW's best lineup that wins slightly less NEEDS. TO. BE. MITIGATED. Sell Favors for stretch 4 this is not working!

I honestly wonder if there are more than a dozen people here who actually watch Utah play. The Favors contract extension thread says a resounding yes.
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And how many games did they close together? I am one of the biggest Favors homers there is, but dude needs a 3 if we're going to keep him and contend. Simple as that.
 
Scrap this thread... Niang is all we need!
 
fishonjazz said:
Your untouchables list is way too long.
If we are trading for a star player guys like Allen, O’Neal, exum, Rubio are the type of guys that need to be used in the trade.

Have to use good assets to get good players in trades sometimes I would think.

It ain’t like you can trade udoh and Burks for porzingas or something right?
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I think that our team thinks we are close. With that being the case, the FO will not break up the locker room or trade super bargain, good fit guys like O'Neale and Allen. Rubio seems like he will here a while. Trading him might irk Donovan. Exum could be traded I guess, but he only has value if he plays really well and then why would we trade him?

But before I close the door on them, let's see what it will take to get our targets:

Niko: if he becomes available, it's because he either doesn't fit, NOLA sucks, or he wants too much money. In other words, NOLA won't have much leverage especially since he's an expiring. . The most I'm giving NOLA in that scenario is Burks and our 2019 1st. If we wanted him badly enough, we could just sign him in the summer.

Tobias Harris: once again, he would be traded in the last year of his deal like Niko. We might have to bid against other contenders, but if we wanted him that badly, we could just wait and sign him in the summer. Burks, Udoh and our 2019 1st is all I would offer.

Otto Porter: if that situation falls through, it's because they don't want his contract for the level of play he provides. With that being the case, Burks, Udoh, Thabo and a 1st clears the books for them. Maybe we get Exum involved in that deal, but I'm not sure why. He is not a good value.

Millsap: I wouldn't trade anything more than Burks, Udoh, Thabo, Neto and Bradley for Millsap. Maybe I add a 1st. I love him, but he makes too much. Doesn't make sense to lose Exum or Favors (unless he is hurt) for Millsap.

Almost every trade I would consider would be Burks and/or Udoh plus our draft pick for ______________. Depending on what Rubio and the FO does in terms of an extension, I would consider Burks and/or Udoh for a bad contract and a future 1st. If we love what we have, why break it up in 2019? Add an asset.
 
Favors-Burks-Grayson/Exum/Bradley for Anthony Davis.

GET IT DONE!!!1!!
 
TheStormofWar said:
And how many games did they close together? I am one of the biggest Favors homers there is, but dude needs a 3 if we're going to keep him and contend. Simple as that.
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By this fan logic, we need to move away from the guy whose rotation minutes most often sends us into the 4th quarter with the lead, and sets us up to close out the last five minutes. Sometimes he gets pulled at the 5 minute mark because QS doesn't need 2 free throw shooting liabilities on the floor, or because his minute allocation has been reached and he doesn't need to get worn down. Other times he closes with Gobert and puts into the 2nd round.
 
LoPo said:
I think that our team thinks we are close. With that being the case, the FO will not break up the locker room or trade super bargain, good fit guys like O'Neale and Allen. Rubio seems like he will here a while. Trading him might irk Donovan. Exum could be traded I guess, but he only has value if he plays really well and then why would we trade him?

But before I close the door on them, let's see what it will take to get our targets:

Niko: if he becomes available, it's because he either doesn't fit, NOLA sucks, or he wants too much money. In other words, NOLA won't have much leverage especially since he's an expiring. . The most I'm giving NOLA in that scenario is Burks and our 2019 1st. If we wanted him badly enough, we could just sign him in the summer.

Tobias Harris: once again, he would be traded in the last year of his deal like Niko. We might have to bid against other contenders, but if we wanted him that badly, we could just wait and sign him in the summer. Burks, Udoh and our 2019 1st is all I would offer.

Otto Porter: if that situation falls through, it's because they don't want his contract for the level of play he provides. With that being the case, Burks, Udoh, Thabo and a 1st clears the books for them. Maybe we get Exum involved in that deal, but I'm not sure why. He is not a good value.

Millsap: I wouldn't trade anything more than Burks, Udoh, Thabo, Neto and Bradley for Millsap. Maybe I add a 1st. I love him, but he makes too much. Doesn't make sense to lose Exum or Favors (unless he is hurt) for Millsap.

Almost every trade I would consider would be Burks and/or Udoh plus our draft pick for ______________. Depending on what Rubio and the FO does in terms of an extension, I would consider Burks and/or Udoh for a bad contract and a future 1st. If we love what we have, why break it up in 2019? Add an asset.
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I agree that we might not have to use any of those untouchable guys on your list and we wouldn’t want to use them either. But the term “untouchable” implies that the jazz hang up the phone if anyone asks about said player. I’m pretty sure that if a scenario came around where a star player who wasn’t happy and had multiple years left on their contract and wanted to be traded to the jazz (or a star who wanted to come to the jazz and who was on a short contract but wanted to sign an extension or new contract with the jazz) then the jazz would use some of those guys in the trade.

If say Damien Lillard was demanding a trade and saying publicly that the jazz was where he wanted to go and the blazers felt like they had to trade him and called up DL and said I want to trade you Damien Lillard for Dante exum and a future first (and some other guys to make salary work but X and picks being the main part of the trade from our side) then I’m pretty sure DL wouldn’t hang up the phone.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Favors-Burks-Grayson/Exum/Bradley for Anthony Davis.

GET IT DONE!!!1!!
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No way would DL include exum or Grayson in a trade for the brow. Those two are untouchable.
 
Why not target Burks as the best trade piece? His defense has gotten better every year and now he's pretty decent. If he can shoot 3's at 37-38% on 4 attempts per then teams will start asking. If he gets back to 40% on volume then he becomes a nice asset (who doesn't fit here).
 
idestroyedthetoilet said:
By this fan logic, we need to move away from the guy whose rotation minutes most often sends us into the 4th quarter with the lead, and sets us up to close out the last five minutes. Sometimes he gets pulled at the 5 minute mark because QS doesn't need 2 free throw shooting liabilities on the floor, or because his minute allocation has been reached and he doesn't need to get worn down. Other times he closes with Gobert and puts into the 2nd round.
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The most utilized lineup in the 4th quarter last year was a combination of Mitchell, Gobert, Ingles, and Rubio, with a combination of Crowder, Johnson (before the trade) and O'Neale. Favors doesn't even sniff the most time until the 4th most used line-up. Favors is no defensive liability, so why not use him the most? Again, this ISN'T a knock on Favors as he's damned effective at what he does. But you don't contend unless you can spread the floor from all four positions. I do think Derrick gets that aspect down more effectively next year, but it's on him to produce. He knows it and the team knows it. Dimes to dollars was part of his incentive pack was hitting a certain percentage on 3s on a certain volume. You don't do that unless you want your guy to shoot threes. Simple as that.

To be clear, I don't think we trade Favors and I do think he can do a decent impersonation of Al Horford. He's got a light touch for a big guy and can get better. But he needs to do so if our otherwise pedestrian offense (and yes, it was in the playoffs) is to get better.
 
TheStormofWar said:
The most utilized lineup in the 4th quarter last year was a combination of Mitchell, Gobert, Ingles, and Rubio, with a combination of Crowder, Johnson (before the trade) and O'Neale. Favors doesn't even sniff the most time until the 4th most used line-up. Favors is no defensive liability, so why not use him the most? Again, this ISN'T a knock on Favors as he's damned effective at what he does. But you don't contend unless you can spread the floor from all four positions. I do think Derrick gets that aspect down more effectively next year, but it's on him to produce. He knows it and the team knows it. Dimes to dollars was part of his incentive pack was hitting a certain percentage on 3s on a certain volume. You don't do that unless you want your guy to shoot threes. Simple as that.

To be clear, I don't think we trade Favors and I do think he can do a decent impersonation of Al Horford. He's got a light touch for a big guy and can get better. But he needs to do so if our otherwise pedestrian offense (and yes, it was in the playoffs) is to get better.
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******** stat. Utah used 250 different 4th quarter lineups, and most played only 2-4 minutes together. QS is a deck shuffling machine in the 4th.

Part of Favors' role is letting Rudy rest long enough to finish strong. That's been a great strategy by QS. Both go all out in the 4th. To have that luxury at full strength and energy is a luxury.
 
fishonjazz said:
I agree that we might not have to use any of those untouchable guys on your list and we wouldn’t want to use them either. But the term “untouchable” implies that the jazz hang up the phone if anyone asks about said player. I’m pretty sure that if a scenario came around where a star player who wasn’t happy and had multiple years left on their contract and wanted to be traded to the jazz (or a star who wanted to come to the jazz and who was on a short contract but wanted to sign an extension or new contract with the jazz) then the jazz would use some of those guys in the trade.

If say Damien Lillard was demanding a trade and saying publicly that the jazz was where he wanted to go and the blazers felt like they had to trade him and called up DL and said I want to trade you Damien Lillard for Dante exum and a future first (and some other guys to make salary work but X and picks being the main part of the trade from our side) then I’m pretty sure DL wouldn’t hang up the phone.
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You are right. Untouchable might be a little strong. However, I just don't see us being in the mix for a player like that. And if so, it would be a force out situation which can get complicated. Even if Lillard would want us, Portland would probably pull an Indiana and send him elsewhere.

I actually don't see a perfect player out there for us right now that we can't be patient on. If we want Tobias Harris that badly, just wait. In the meantime, trade Burks for somebody like Dellevadova and a couple future 1st swaps or something. I just really don't see us changing the roster much between now and 2020. I know that sounds disappointing, but it's just the feeling I get.
 
Grayson looks like an excellent distributor. He has good handles, is a good shooter(historically), and is tall for the position of PG at 6'6". His court-awareness is fantastic. According to some articles I read he did well when playing PG in college. And we have Dante.

I love Ricky, but with how expensive he'll be it seems like he might, based on Grayson's success, be expendable.
 
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The only true untouchable is Mitchell. He wouldnt be traded for any other player in the league. Gobert is 99% in that range. I think Ingles is close. Along with being a very good SF and one of the best 3pt shooters in the league, he's the glue guy. He keeps everyone loose and you can tell his teammates really like him.

To those hoping we get a great FA in 2019, I hate to disappoint, but it ain't gonna happen. Favors will be back and so will Rubio. The only chance Utah has of landing a good veteran is at the deadline, with some combination of expirings (Burks, Thabo, Udih, Neto), picks or other assets. Miss at the deadline and Lindsey may look to use the MLE in 2019.
 
str8line said:
Grayson looks like an excellent distributor. He has good handles, is a good shooter(historically), and is tall for the position of PG at 6'6". His court-awareness is fantastic. According to some articles I read he did well when playing PG in college. And we have Dante.

I love Ricky, but with how expensive he'll be it seems like he might, based on Grayson's success, be expendable.
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It's possible, but it's hard to compare a rookie PG to a vet like Ricky that was stroking at the best clip of his career. There's nothing wrong with Grayson's shot that I can see, but he hasn't bee knocking them down. But this is probably due to his abductor and not getting the lift on his shot. Exum is even further behind than Grayson in terms of shooting and we've seen that we need it from the PG to be successful. After this upcoming season, I can see the Jazz giving Ricky a two year deal with a raise while grooming Exum/Grayson behind him. That's assuming Ricky continues his renaissance next year. But Exum and Grayson are going to be fighting for minutes behind him.
 
I don't think any player is untouchable. But players are going to have different values in relation to trades and their impact on the team.

Cornerstone (tradelolkthxbye):

Gobert
Mitchell

Very hard to replace due to impact for the contract value:

Rubio
Ingles
O'Neale

Hard to replace due to value to the team. They will probably move to the "very hard" category as the season wears on. Exum and Favors are here only because of the new contracts and I think Crowder will get his shot figured out with a full offseason and training camp with the Jazz:

Favors
Exum
Crowder

Unknown due to being new on the team:

Allen
Niang (probably)

Tradeable assets. These guys have value but we could part with them without much impact due to glut or available replacement players:

Bradley or Udoh (not both)
Burks
Neto

Unknowns:
Thabo (Only listed here because I don't know where or how he exactly slots in with the emergence of Royce last year. The Jazz will play him of course, just don't know how our wing glut helps or hurts him.)
McCree (who?)

We'll see what happens.
 
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