Supreme Court Justice Kennedy to Retire

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

What about her civic duty to report a sexual predator to the police? If any of this was true....

Now you’re just being confrontational now. Everyone knows there’s a high % of sex crimes not reported due to the high emotion trauma inflicted on the victims. Idiot!!


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[candrew]

What about her civic duty to report a sexual predator to the police? If any of this was true....

Ugh - she was 15 when it happened.

 

[Harambe]

Now you’re just being confrontational now. Everyone knows there’s a high % of sex crimes not reported due to the high emotion trauma inflicted on the victims. Idiot!!


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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...victims-sexual-harassment-come-forward-sooner
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...victims-sexual-harassment-come-forward-sooner
It's 2018, and it's shameful to not know why victims don't come forward immediately. Readall of these, rub them up against "this man is going to take another chance at my body"

 

[fishonjazz]

This was 100% a attempt to slander by the Democrats, they knew they have ZERO evidence so why even do this stunt? All the witnesses deny. I'm an impartial viewer not democrat or republican, the only string they have to hold onto for this crazyness to be remotely true since all the witnessess denie it happen is a supposed lie detector test, that's all that's left that can possibly collaborate this obvious stunt, then we find out this morning the questions that were asked, none of them included Kavanaugh's name?

This is 100% lunacy, all in an attempt by the dems to slander a guys name, delay the senate and the supreme court. They know they have nothing, and it's all damning to DNC, people with eyes to see are walking away. Anyway, y'all know my opinions, @Catchall is about the only person in this entire thread other than me with a brain it seems but I haven't read all posts and i'm not devoting any more time to this charade. Peace

But why would the dems do this? Couldn't the people who pick the supreme court judges just choose someone else that the democrats dont like instead?

 

[Deleted member 5000]

1) Attempt to get in the public image their opponents put Rapists in the Supreme Court
2) Stall the Supreme Court because there is some big stuff coming up some say Treason of high ranking individuals (John McCain level names)
3) Stall the Senate
4) Fund Raising
5) Negotiating Asset (we'll drop this if you drop that(FISA Declas that implicates many individuals on both sides)

 

[Stars Fan]

4


Did you see his opening statement? He did say he is for any investigation the committee puts forward in his opening statement, including an FBI probe. Do you really think the Dems have not done an intensive investigation? Oviously there is a political driver by the Democrats to delay with an FBI investigation, and Kavanaugh knows that, but as he is supposed to appear impartial, it would damage his nomination to make those claims and the Dems knew this. It was a smart but unfair question. Kavanaugh stated that any investigation the committee determines to be appropriate he would back and he was confident it would vindicate him. I also would like an FBI probe, but there is a clear political reason for delay by the Dems and avoiding delay by the Repubs. Do you really think the Dems would let a probe happen in three days like the Hill matter? This is political theater at it's finest.

Any delay makes the confirmation less likely, especially if Dems push other very shaky allegations with no witnesses. The Dems want a delay for a nomination until after the mid-terms. This is a fact. I am sorry, but the gang rape story seems simply absurd if you read the allegations from the standpoint that there no witnesses have come forward based on Swetnick's account. What is striking to me from all three accounts is that there are 0 corroborating witnesses that saw even one of these actions. I tend to believe Ford and it is plausible that others would not remember (in that case Kavanaugh and Judge are lying most likely) what happened to her, and I think the Dems pushing the other two allegations actually hurts them and tarnishes Ford's claim a bit, especially coupled with the timing of the release of Ford's claim, which makes it have a political flavor. With multiple claims being pushed, all with many people alleged to have seen the events or been present, yet no witnesses have come forward to say they saw any of it. The Swetnick and Ramirez stories seem like BS.

My observation is the Republicans, by using an attorney to ask questions, were very fair and respectful to Ford (as they should be). There were probing questions, but no yelling or accusations and no trickery with unfair questions. Ford also had the benefit of the constant interruptions and break up in questions between rep and dem committee questions (that were all favorable for Ford as expected). It went from probing fact finding questions, many of which were never answered due to the format, to questions from Dems that were all favorable to Ford.

The respect and fairness of the questions posed by the committee to Ford were not afforded to Kavanaugh. Doe anyone that watched the hearimg dispute this? The Republican committee members did a poor job, and agreeing to the 5 minute setup made this even more of a circus.

My take was that K was combative and evasive. He got less than he deserved as far as tough questioning.

He set the tone in his opening statement. Accusing Democrats of Left Wing conspiracy, saying the hearing was a farce, threatening that Democrats would reap the whirlwind, etc.. (which was much more combative than the version released before heading. I wonder who helped him beef it up? )

This was simply political theater. The Republicans, who control the committee and therefore the process, set this up to be a "he said, she said" contest of credibility. They complain of the laggard Democrats slow rolling the release of the information, but they could have agreed to collect more info via an investigation, or to have allowed others to appear before the committee to be questioned. They didn't. They and simply racing to put this behind them and force an all or nothing vote to proceed on Friday. Acting like they have to have this man, now, on the court is what forced this "circus" on F and K.

The role of the "prosecutor" was as much a part of the theater as anything. She was there to protect the Republican senators from having to appear before the american people questioning F. She wasn't there to protect F. She started to question K too. But he was having such a hard time, the Republicans had to come to his rescue. LG opted for the nuclear option because he was losing the PR game. So he made the tone more confrontational, blasting the dems and projecting on them the very things the Republicans have been doing for the past several years. Their fear is that if they lose the midterms, the left side will turn the tables and not allow a vote on a Trump nominee. We all know where that idea came from. And Graham self-righteously blamed the atmosphere on the Democrats. That was just red meat for the base. It was about winning the media war today, and setting the stage to sweep the accusations under the rug.

I feel for K. Anyone who was less than perfect in HS would not want his worst behavior asked in the national forum. But he was also not forth coming. He tried to hedge his answers, split hairs, and probably outright lie, look up "buffing" (nsfw) if we want to he did that as a teen and he is not that guy now, that is one argument. I think the Republicans thought they would lose that battle. So he was forced to defend his "honor" in the face of very uncomfortable questions that couldn't be defended directly. He couldn't be up front and say "I drank to excess in HS. I blacked out. " Which as a kid who was a HS drinker, was the point of why I was drinking in the first place. If he opens that door, he is admitting that maybe he just didn't remember what happened that afternoon. Like I said, I feel for him. He will forever be the guy who raped F in the minds of some people. I think that will push him to be the ideologue the Democrats fear he is.

The bottom line is the Republicans will likely win the SC battle. It may cost them in the midterms and beyond. There will be a lot of people voting based on what happened yesterday.


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[Harambe]

My take was that K was combative and evasive. He got less than he deserved as far as tough questioning.

He set the tone in his opening statement. Accusing Democrats of Left Wing conspiracy, saying the hearing was a farce, threatening that Democrats would reap the whirlwind, etc.. (which was much more combative than the version released before heading. I wonder who helped him beef it up? )

This was simply political theater. The Republicans, who control the committee and therefore the process, set this up to be a "he said, she said" contest of credibility. They complain of the laggard Democrats slow rolling the release of the information, but they could have agreed to collect more info via an investigation, or to have allowed others to appear before the committee to be questioned. They didn't. They and simply racing to put this behind them and force an all or nothing vote to proceed on Friday. Acting like they have to have this man, now, on the court is what forced this "circus" on F and K.

The role of the "prosecutor" was as much a part of the theater as anything. She was there to protect the Republican senators from having to appear before the american people questioning F. She wasn't there to protect F. She started to question K too. But he was having such a hard time, the Republicans had to come to his rescue. LG opted for the nuclear option because he was losing the PR game. So he made the tone more confrontational, blasting the dems and projecting on them the very things the Republicans have been doing for the past several years. Their fear is that if they lose the midterms, the left side will turn the tables and not allow a vote on a Trump nominee. We all know where that idea came from. And Graham self-righteously blamed the atmosphere on the Democrats. That was just red meat for the base. It was about winning the media war today, and setting the stage to sweep the accusations under the rug.

I feel for K. Anyone who was less than perfect in HS would not want his worst behavior asked in the national forum. But he was also not forth coming. He tried to hedge his answers, split hairs, and probably outright lie, look up "buffing" (nsfw) if we want to he did that as a teen and he is not that guy now, that is one argument. I think the Republicans thought they would lose that battle. So he was forced to defend his "honor" in the face of very uncomfortable questions that couldn't be defended directly. He couldn't be up front and say "I drank to excess in HS. I blacked out. " Which as a kid who was a HS drinker, was the point of why I was drinking in the first place. If he opens that door, he is admitting that maybe he just didn't remember what happened that afternoon. Like I said, I feel for him. He will forever be the guy who raped F in the minds of some people. I think that will push him to be the ideologue the Democrats fear he is.

The bottom line is the Republicans will likely win the SC battle. It may cost them in the midterms and beyond. There will be a lot of people voting based on what happened yesterday.


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Their performance yesterday, from Senators to B.kavvy, to even his family, was a stereotypical DARVO coping mechanism.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/darvo.htm
http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/darvo.htm

Description


When wrong-doers are confronted with their acts (which may be criminal), they show a pattern that can be abbreviated as DARVO This stands for Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender.

denies having committed the offence, attacks the accuser and reverses the roles, painting themself as the victim and their actual victim as the actual guilty party.

Two common types of denial are 'It didn't happen' and (if it cannot be denied) then 'It wasn't harmful'.

Attacks can be violent and effectively abusive towards the accuser, with threats of legal action, attacks on credibility and so on.

Example
A person is accused of rape. When confronted with this, they deny that rape occurred, explaining it as consensual and acting in an outraged, affronted way, painting themselves as a hapless victim, whereas the actual victim with whom they had sex is described as a vindictive person who the accused later rightly spurned after discovering their malicious personality.

Discussion
This is a pattern described by Jennifer Freyd in 1997 in her researches on 'betrayal trauma theory', particularly in the context of childhood abuse and sexual offenders.

This pattern has links to the Drama Triangle when a third party (typically representing the law) seeks to confront the person with their crime.

So what?
If confronting what appears to be a wrong-doer, then watch out for this pattern.

Note also that a similar pattern may appear where the person actually is the innocent party. The best approach is thus to seek further evidence, whilst watching for signs of lying.

The answer is in front of us. Yale law school instructors, and even the ABA is asking for a full FBI investigation at this point. Let's go get more data.

In the mean time, We can illustrate that he lied under oath in 2006, and 2018, where his knowledge of stolen documents are concerned, and his temperament during yesterdays hearing with unsuitable for the supreme court. Let's fairly flush this guy out of the system on those two, let the FBI investigation start and continue, and let donnie pick someone else.

 

[JAZZGASM]

My take was that K was combative and evasive. He got less than he deserved as far as tough questioning.

He set the tone in his opening statement. Accusing Democrats of Left Wing conspiracy, saying the hearing was a farce, threatening that Democrats would reap the whirlwind, etc.. (which was much more combative than the version released before heading. I wonder who helped him beef it up? )

This was simply political theater. The Republicans, who control the committee and therefore the process, set this up to be a "he said, she said" contest of credibility. They complain of the laggard Democrats slow rolling the release of the information, but they could have agreed to collect more info via an investigation, or to have allowed others to appear before the committee to be questioned. They didn't. They and simply racing to put this behind them and force an all or nothing vote to proceed on Friday. Acting like they have to have this man, now, on the court is what forced this "circus" on F and K.

The role of the "prosecutor" was as much a part of the theater as anything. She was there to protect the Republican senators from having to appear before the american people questioning F. She wasn't there to protect F. She started to question K too. But he was having such a hard time, the Republicans had to come to his rescue. LG opted for the nuclear option because he was losing the PR game. So he made the tone more confrontational, blasting the dems and projecting on them the very things the Republicans have been doing for the past several years. Their fear is that if they lose the midterms, the left side will turn the tables and not allow a vote on a Trump nominee. We all know where that idea came from. And Graham self-righteously blamed the atmosphere on the Democrats. That was just red meat for the base. It was about winning the media war today, and setting the stage to sweep the accusations under the rug.

I feel for K. Anyone who was less than perfect in HS would not want his worst behavior asked in the national forum. But he was also not forth coming. He tried to hedge his answers, split hairs, and probably outright lie, look up "buffing" (nsfw) if we want to he did that as a teen and he is not that guy now, that is one argument. I think the Republicans thought they would lose that battle. So he was forced to defend his "honor" in the face of very uncomfortable questions that couldn't be defended directly. He couldn't be up front and say "I drank to excess in HS. I blacked out. " Which as a kid who was a HS drinker, was the point of why I was drinking in the first place. If he opens that door, he is admitting that maybe he just didn't remember what happened that afternoon. Like I said, I feel for him. He will forever be the guy who raped F in the minds of some people. I think that will push him to be the ideologue the Democrats fear he is.

The bottom line is the Republicans will likely win the SC battle. It may cost them in the midterms and beyond. There will be a lot of people voting based on what happened yesterday.


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These accusations were a guaranteed win for Democrats, no matter the outcome of the confirmation.

I agree with your assessment, but I have to wonder if Kavanaugh's posture and combativeness was due to advice from Conservatives on how to act. And I agree that the Republicans have not treated this process correctly, but I also believe the Democrats have not acted in good faith, regardless of what has happened in the past. Feinstein can say this isn't political, but the entire process has been. The Garland nomination was a farce, but if Democrats are better than that (which they claimed to be during the Garland fiasco) then they wouldn't be hiding the ball like they have now and tried to delay.

I think the Republican's would have been better off asking questions themselves, but they were scared to do it. If anything, they should have found a good criminal defense attorney, not a prosecutor. A prosecutor that is used to asking hard questions to accused and protecting an accuser. This was a new experience for her.

As I have said before, I am truly disgusted by the way our representative's act. If Ford admitted she lied I guarantee that no Democrat Senator would vote to confirm Kavanaugh.

I also agree that Kavanaugh will be much more of a right wing Judge if he is appointed. I didn't love the pick in the first place. And even though I never thought Planned Parenthood v. Casey would be overturned in my lifetime, if he gets appointed now, he may hold enough of a grudge against Dems to push him in that direction (It is unfortunate that both our representatives and judicial system is predicated so much on politics, but it is what it is, even if it shouldn't be).

 

[NAOS]

Their performance yesterday, from Senators to B.kavvy, to even his family, was a stereotypical DARVO coping mechanism.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/darvo.htm


The answer is in front of us. Yale law school instructors, and even the ABA is asking for a full FBI investigation at this point. Let's go get more data.

In the mean time, We can illustrate that he lied under oath in 2006, and 2018, where his knowledge of stolen documents are concerned, and his temperament during yesterdays hearing with unsuitable for the supreme court. Let's fairly flush this guy out of the system on those two, let the FBI investigation start and continue, and let donnie pick someone else.

Except that people were very careful not to attack Dr. Ford... so it isn't the stereotype of the delusional structure you provided. Instead, the attacks were plainly targeted toward the democrats supposed political agenda/timing.

 

[candrew]

I agree with your assessment, but I have to wonder if Kavanaugh's posture and combativeness was due to advice from Conservatives on how to act.

Without a doubt - Trump can pull the nomination at any time. He was basically performing for an audience of one yesterday and placating the president by doing an imitation of him.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Boy. If Trump gets a 3rd Justice, a literal war may break out.

 

[NAOS]

Except that people were very careful not to attack Dr. Ford... so it isn't the stereotype of the delusional structure you provided. Instead, the attacks were plainly targeted toward the democrats supposed political agenda/timing.

with the exception of your lovely Senator Hatch and President Trump, of course, who have had lots of unsubstantiated **** to say about Dr. Ford.

 

[Harambe]

Boy. If Trump gets a 3rd Justice, a literal war may break out.

If he gets it, he gets it. If we don't postpone until an FBI investigation goes through for AT LEAST Blassie's case, we might start seeing violence.

 

[Stars Fan]

These accusations were a guaranteed win for Democrats, no matter the outcome of the confirmation.

I agree with your assessment, but I have to wonder if Kavanaugh's posture and combativeness was due to advice from Conservatives on how to act. And I agree that the Republicans have not treated this process correctly, but I also believe the Democrats have not acted in good faith, regardless of what has happened in the past. Feinstein can say this isn't political, but the entire process has been. The Garland nomination was a farce, but if Democrats are better than that (which they claimed to be during the Garland fiasco) then they wouldn't be hiding the ball like they have now and tried to delay.

I think the Republican's would have been better off asking questions themselves, but they were scared to do it. If anything, they should have found a good criminal defense attorney, not a prosecutor. A prosecutor that is used to asking hard questions to accused and protecting an accuser. This was a new experience for her.

As I have said before, I am truly disgusted by the way our representative's act. If Ford admitted she lied I guarantee that no Democrat Senator would vote to confirm Kavanaugh.

I also agree that Kavanaugh will be much more of a right wing Judge if he is appointed. I didn't love the pick in the first place. And even though I never thought Planned Parenthood v. Casey would be overturned in my lifetime, if he gets appointed now, he may hold enough of a grudge against Dems to push him in that direction (It is unfortunate that both our representatives and judicial system is predicated so much on politics, but it is what it is, even if it shouldn't be).

I agree that the Democrats are also playing games with this nomination. They probably realize that the SC bench has already been painted blue, we are just watching the paint dry now. Win the next round, is what I would be focusing on.

I firmly believe we are stronger united. I hope we can collectively find a way to build unity, but I'm not optimistic. We don't have a unifying vision or force right now. Never thought I would look back on the cold war with fondness, but at least we had the USSR boogie man to keep pols from getting too crazy.

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[Stars Fan]

Their performance yesterday, from Senators to B.kavvy, to even his family, was a stereotypical DARVO coping mechanism.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/darvo.htm
http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/darvo.htm


The answer is in front of us. Yale law school instructors, and even the ABA is asking for a full FBI investigation at this point. Let's go get more data.

In the mean time, We can illustrate that he lied under oath in 2006, and 2018, where his knowledge of stolen documents are concerned, and his temperament during yesterdays hearing with unsuitable for the supreme court. Let's fairly flush this guy out of the system on those two, let the FBI investigation start and continue, and let donnie pick someone else.

If only there was a chance of that happening! Yesterday was the last chance for romance at this dance.

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[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think there could be something to Ford's case, I just think there needs to be more evidence.

I think there's truth to the fact that some of these boarding schools had a 'frat boy' culture where the boys would drink, act carelessly and act recklessly in the early 80s. Possibly there still is. Yale has several secret clubs where students involved may drink excessively and act in an elitist, crude or entitled way. Skull & Bones is only one of them. The problem for me is that the evidence against Kavanaugh never got past circumstantial and innuendo. Ford should have at least been able to identify the street or the neighborhood where the alleged incident took place.

 

[Stars Fan]

These accusations were a guaranteed win for Democrats, no matter the outcome of the confirmation.

I agree with your assessment, but I have to wonder if Kavanaugh's posture and combativeness was due to advice from Conservatives on how to act. And I agree that the Republicans have not treated this process correctly, but I also believe the Democrats have not acted in good faith, regardless of what has happened in the past. Feinstein can say this isn't political, but the entire process has been. The Garland nomination was a farce, but if Democrats are better than that (which they claimed to be during the Garland fiasco) then they wouldn't be hiding the ball like they have now and tried to delay.

I think the Republican's would have been better off asking questions themselves, but they were scared to do it. If anything, they should have found a good criminal defense attorney, not a prosecutor. A prosecutor that is used to asking hard questions to accused and protecting an accuser. This was a new experience for her.

As I have said before, I am truly disgusted by the way our representative's act. If Ford admitted she lied I guarantee that no Democrat Senator would vote to confirm Kavanaugh.

I also agree that Kavanaugh will be much more of a right wing Judge if he is appointed. I didn't love the pick in the first place. And even though I never thought Planned Parenthood v. Casey would be overturned in my lifetime, if he gets appointed now, he may hold enough of a grudge against Dems to push him in that direction (It is unfortunate that both our representatives and judicial system is predicated so much on politics, but it is what it is, even if it shouldn't be).

IAWTP

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[Stars Fan]

Except that people were very careful not to attack Dr. Ford... so it isn't the stereotype of the delusional structure you provided. Instead, the attacks were plainly targeted toward the democrats supposed political agenda/timing.

Yeah an outright attack is not a good look in the #metoo era. But the rest fits. The attacks were more nuanced, attacking her memory, questioning her fear of flying, questioning her motivation, etc..

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[Harambe]

I think there could be something to Ford's case, I just think there needs to be more evidence.

If you were a hiring manager, considering a candidate, and someone said "Hey.. that guy's a sexual predator and he's assaulted me before. Here's a timeline of when, corroborated in discussions about his past six years ago(before you were even considered him). Here's the results of a polygraph test I took, voluntarily, that I passed with flying colors. I don't think you should hire him." You consider; and decide you need to ask more questions. The job you'd be hiring him for is very much in the public eye. In the public eye, he's made himself look like an overly emotional, affluenzic fool that is being pissy over his job consideration taking so long. He interrupts people, degrades people, inferrs that there's a conspiracy in his speech.

Remember that you're not trying to convict him, you're trying to decide if he's capable of putting his emotions aside to act in the good of your company. There are other candidates out there that are just as qualified.

Would you hire this man?

 

[Stars Fan]

I think there could be something to Ford's case, I just think there needs to be more evidence.

I think there's truth to the fact that some of these boarding schools had a 'frat boy' culture where the boys would drink, act carelessly and act recklessly in the early 80s. Possibly there still is. Yale has several secret clubs where students involved may drink excessively and act in an elitist, crude or entitled way. Skull & Bones is only one of them. The problem for me is that the evidence against Kavanaugh never got past circumstantial and innuendo. Ford should have at least been able to identify the street or the neighborhood where the alleged incident took place.

I was struck by what a privileged upbringing these two witnesses had.

Hard to relate to folks born with the silver spoon in their mouths when the road gets rocky. Her experience was more sympathetic, plenty of people can relate. Hard to relate to Biff Kavanaugh though.

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