False equivalence.
Not all leftists adore Obama. Just like not all right wingers adore Trump.
The Caravan
- Thread starter str8line
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False equivalence.
Not all leftists adore Obama. Just like not all right wingers adore Trump.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Since the early nineties right wing extremists have killed far more people than left wingers, the libertarian Cato Institute puts the figure at about ten times as many.
What left wing violence exists in this country is primarily carried out by Black Nationalists. For all the press antifa gets they really don't cause much harm.
Antifa is a stain that is embracing violence. **** antifa.
Having said that. I agree that there is no real comparison as to the death toll between the two. The cost of human life. The suffering.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Do you guys remember when leftists extremists killed 3 police officers who were ambushed in Baton Rouge while 3 others were critically injured? Or do you remember when 5 police officers were shot to death in Dallas and 11 others were wounded?
I do. Just like I remember the extremists from the right.
That said, I'm not going to blame the entire left and right for the actions of a few with disturbingly loose screws.
I do. Just like I remember the extremists from the right.
That said, I'm not going to blame the entire left and right for the actions of a few with disturbingly loose screws.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Oh, and hey.
https://www.theatlas.com/charts/rkN8tZz8m
Extremists on both sides, man! Extremists on both sides.
65 too many.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
Will you acknowledge that one side is significantly more likely to produce loose screws than the other?
Oh, and hey.
https://www.theatlas.com/charts/rkN8tZz8m
Extremists on both sides, man! Extremists on both sides.
Question, I’m assuming the police asaasinations are not included in this correct?
Zombie
Well-Known Member
I believe they are. From what I read both the Cato Institute and the ADL included the Baton Rouge and Dallas police killings in the figure for left wing extremist killings, and they were similar numbers.
Getting Traded
Banned
Left wing extremist believe in gun control; right wing extremists believe in no control over gun ownership. Right wing extremists are basically violent people.
Left-wing extremist believe in environmental controls, political spending controls, Wall Street and bank controls, Big Pharma controls; right-wing extremists believe in no controls at all: let monopolies be created at will, unlimited spending for the military, unlimited power for law enforcement and homeland security. The only controls that the right wing wants are controls over people, like abortion and civil rights.
Left-wing extremist believe in environmental controls, political spending controls, Wall Street and bank controls, Big Pharma controls; right-wing extremists believe in no controls at all: let monopolies be created at will, unlimited spending for the military, unlimited power for law enforcement and homeland security. The only controls that the right wing wants are controls over people, like abortion and civil rights.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
As in politically motivated acts of terrorism, sure - these guys are Nazi's, skin heads, and literally the worst of the worst. Kind of sucks for normal right wingers to even be mentioned in the same breath as those scumbags too, but if it helps people sleep at night then do what you gotta do.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
The biggest driver of right wing extremist violence is racist animosity, which is in a variety of ways fostered and encouraged by much of the leadership of the republican party. That, to me, is the biggest difference between the two sides.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
I tried to find what they used in the graph Jim posted, but couldn't find anything specific. It would be interesting to see what's on the list and what's left off.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
Quite the opposite, it makes me sleep worse at night to know that crazy shooters and bombers are no longer inspired by fringe figures, cult leaders or their own esoteric interpretations of Beatles lyrics, but by the President of the United States.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Terrorists inspired by the president or their political party is not a new thing under Trump though.
While it may not be new it is certainly a whole new level.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Yeah, for sure.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-tensions-break-migrant-caravan-150351513.html
Damn, one of the migrants died today from an apparent head shot wound from a rubber bullet.
I've seen pics of what rubber bullets can do and it's not pretty.
Damn, one of the migrants died today from an apparent head shot wound from a rubber bullet.
I've seen pics of what rubber bullets can do and it's not pretty.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
https://www.cato.org/blog/terrorism-deaths-ideology-charlottesville-anomaly
Since the 90s, by far, the most deadly terrorists on American soil are Radical Islamists. What I find interesting with how the numbers were classified is that White Nationalists, and Nazi terrorism is put in the same category as right wingers, yet Islamic terrorism committed by known left wingers are put in a separate category than left wingers.
I mean, if you're going to make it about political parties though, you probably shouldn't cherry pick.
Either way, it's still weird arguing over who has killed more because the terrorists do not fairly reflect their political party in the US imo. I feel we blame political parties more than we do the actual terrorists.
I hope, for our country's sake we've heard the last of domestic terrorism under Trump. I feel like we're at the point where some major **** can start going down (and has too.)
Since the 90s, by far, the most deadly terrorists on American soil are Radical Islamists. What I find interesting with how the numbers were classified is that White Nationalists, and Nazi terrorism is put in the same category as right wingers, yet Islamic terrorism committed by known left wingers are put in a separate category than left wingers.
I mean, if you're going to make it about political parties though, you probably shouldn't cherry pick.
Either way, it's still weird arguing over who has killed more because the terrorists do not fairly reflect their political party in the US imo. I feel we blame political parties more than we do the actual terrorists.
I hope, for our country's sake we've heard the last of domestic terrorism under Trump. I feel like we're at the point where some major **** can start going down (and has too.)
you might be the perfect expert on "stupid", indeed. We should all just sit down and listen, I'm sure.
Obama, Pelosi, Reid had nothing to do with causing the increases in health premiums. Trump did that while sitting and watching Fox News in his little TV room in one of his little dives. He is soooooo influential, he is responsible for everything, even stuff that happened before he stole the 2016 elections...…. sure.
"nationalism" is always there to some extent in anyone's thinking, even you, when you discuss our particular country and bemoan anything you think isn't right, or brag about anything that is right in your view. If you think of yourself as an "American" you're saying you're a "nationalist", or you'd be bragging instead about being something you think is better..... say a "globalist" maybe.
Lots of otherwise "Trump supporters" don't like his tariffs, he even says he doesn't like them. He's looking for a deal, using leverage..... some countries have come to the table to meet some of his ideas, and agreements have been re-done, somewhat..... in Trump's mind.... "better for the US". The Chinese are very good at bargaining. Trump is asking for huge issue changes, like letting US innovators have their proprietary rights to their inventions, patents, and such. A lot of Chinese "business" is actually heavily "state-owned". People wanting to set up factories there have to concede trade information and technology rights, and overnight a Chinese competitor sets up using that information.
I'm afraid China's Xi is making a move for world dominance, truly expansionist in trade and international alliances. He's got hundreds of thousands of "extra" male citizens. He's promoting the idea of importing brides and sending men abroad to find mates. Chinese culture is perhaps the most "nationalist" in the whole world. In every way they promote the idea of racial and national superiority.
Xi literally calls his nation the "chosen people", the "great people". Koreans are another "nationalist" and racial superiority sort of culture. Xi is calling Koreans and Vietnamese superior to others on account of significant racial congruity across millennia of migration/intermarriage.
I run into this nationalist pride directly in my business. And of course, the Japanese are that, too. In the Philippines there is a nationalist Christian religion, one a breakaway from the Catholics that is run by filipinos, another a breakaway from the Mormons who hold that Felix Manalo is the prophet of the last days and the Filipinos are God's chosen people.
When Trump says is a "nationalist" he means, simply, that he intends to put our national interests ahead of globalist ideals or deals that give away our advantages with the intent to create a brave new world where our country is deliberately no longer dominant. He means, simply, that globalism doesn't mean more to him than the American people who elected him.
Obama wouldn't say that, nor would Hillary or Bernie.
Historically, the Russians have been a very "racist" culture. The "Russians" dominated all their neighbors and expanded their "Union" during CCCP days, and today they are still controlling most of the so-called "breakaways". Control is not always overt. Sometimes it is exerted through financial means, sometimes by sheer fear.... But there is no informed serious argument about who is the gorilla in that room.
Apparently, few other nations are required or expected to give up their cultural core to prove their acceptable level of compliance to "ideals" imposed from outside. And of course, the United States is the only place on planet earth where things need to be changed..... we're the odd man out, really.... we're the only place left where people can really vote for political leadership and have it count..... really.
Apparently, few other nations are required or expected to give up their cultural core to prove their acceptable level of compliance to "ideals" imposed from outside. And of course, the United States is the only place on planet earth where things need to be changed..... we're the odd man out, really.... we're the only place left where people can really vote for political leadership and have it count..... really.