I like France's
This makes me happy.
- Thread starter TroutBum
- Start date
I like France's
Boondocksaint27
Active Member
Educate me on France's prison system....because I googled "France's Prison System" and this was the first story I got with these quotes:
https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/22/french-prisons-treiber-detainee-death
Edit: More from the story above:
https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/22/french-prisons-treiber-detainee-death
Edit: More from the story above:
Well first I'd take about 75% of people in jail out of jail... you know for the kids.... I mean money. Then we'd evaluate the mental state of the remaining prisoners, and find out the deep reasons of why they did the job they did. And then slowly try to restore balance to their life, as so they might contribute to society rather than take away from it.
Lets say you had a guy who robbed a bank... if you could give me an absolute guarantee that he's no longer a detriment to society (and I know that's impossible, but for argument's sake)... my policy would be let him go.
The fact of the matter is... punishment and negative reinforcement really only edify the victim, and rarely help the culprit. Which is why it's absolute nonsense that victim-less crimes carry the weight that they do.
I care about people... that's my cross to bear.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Are you a jedi or jesus?
Boondocksaint27
Active Member
That's why a qualified that statement with "realistic". Because realistically none of what you are posting will ever happen. Release 75% of the inmates in Jail? So you'd basically be ****ting on the victims of these cases.
As to your so-called "victimless" crimes (I would venture a guess your speaking of narcotics?), I have a couple of things to relay. Having taken children out of dope-houses with untreated illnesses (parents opted to use their gov't med assistance to get the next fix), sleeping in the filthiest of conditions (we're talking pretty bad stuff, the least of which being used syringes in the very beds they were asleep in and I wish I could say these were isolated incidents), I can tell you that hard narcotics are no "victimless" crime. Not to mention the thefts, sex offenses, traffic accidents, and homicides that are committed under the influence of or over narcotics.
Next, I was interviewing a meth-dealer and the case was wrapped up. We had developed a decent rapport as he knew that he was going away for sometime and accepted it as part of "the game". We were just kind of BS-ing on the way to the Jail and we got on the topic of the effects of various drugs. I made the comment "They say dope is a victimless crime." He laughed sarcastically and said "Have you ever met my customers?"
If "caring" is your cross to bear then care for the victims.
As to your so-called "victimless" crimes (I would venture a guess your speaking of narcotics?), I have a couple of things to relay. Having taken children out of dope-houses with untreated illnesses (parents opted to use their gov't med assistance to get the next fix), sleeping in the filthiest of conditions (we're talking pretty bad stuff, the least of which being used syringes in the very beds they were asleep in and I wish I could say these were isolated incidents), I can tell you that hard narcotics are no "victimless" crime. Not to mention the thefts, sex offenses, traffic accidents, and homicides that are committed under the influence of or over narcotics.
Next, I was interviewing a meth-dealer and the case was wrapped up. We had developed a decent rapport as he knew that he was going away for sometime and accepted it as part of "the game". We were just kind of BS-ing on the way to the Jail and we got on the topic of the effects of various drugs. I made the comment "They say dope is a victimless crime." He laughed sarcastically and said "Have you ever met my customers?"
If "caring" is your cross to bear then care for the victims.
meh, difference of opinion. I believe in the right for adults to be adults. Well done...
The France thing was a joke, I don't know if any prison system up to this point works, but that's no excuse to not keep trying
Shouldn't the parent be mowing the lawn then. These kids learned their bad habits somewhere, you think it's a coincidence that's it's all the kids getting bad grades and not just one of them. Monkey see monkey do.
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
Contributor
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Sounds to me like France's system works just fine. Inmates taking themselves out of the gene pool in record numbers, saving the state and general populace money and reducing the risk of recidivism. I like it.
I could be convinced of the "take no prisoners" form of prison reform...
At least it's consistent
I also believe in the right for adults to be adults. What about the rights of those kids Boondock mentioned? Do they have the right not to sleep in needle infested beds? Do they deserve to have their illnesses treated? Does a 4 year old deserve to not have to fend for itself (feed itself, bathe itself, dress itself, etc.) just because Mommy is cracked out?
Crack baby's and crack whores seem to be the detriment to every libertarian argument.
All of those conditions are already illegal, even if the parent is not taking drugs. Making the drugs illegal as well doesn't offer significant additional protection.
Do you believe in the extra punishment that a felony being tagged with the moniker "hate crime" adds?
I know you're afraid to say where you teach but what do you teach?
Hate crimes are directed at more people than the victims. When you abuse/neglect your child because of drugs, is the same abuse/neglect more harmful than it would have been without drugs? Note that is different from saying they would not have been neglected except for drugs.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
I don't think "afraid" is even close to the appropriate word. I have nothing to gain by telling you where I work, so I don't. Also, I'm a young professor that hasn't reached the tenuring phase of my career, so why take the chance that some hillbilly who thinks education is "indoctrination" sending a collection of my posts to my institution? (crazier things have happened, btw).
I teach sociocultural anthropology. My work focuses on the Caribbean. That's as close you'll get.
-nAos.
Why would that be? The U.S. is not libertarian, drugs are illegal, there are millions of people in prison, yet there are still crack babies and crack whores. There would still likely be crack babies and crack whores in a libertarian society. Why would the inability to solve a problem that no other system solves mean that an idea is invalid?
First and foremost prison would be the last resort used against people who are dangerous, period. You cannot leave prison if you are still dangerous (sure, it's hard to verify). In my opinion the justification for imprisoning a person can only be to protect the innocent from their harm. The idea that we should cause criminals pain for the sole purpose of making them suffer is not valid, in my opinion.
I would separate the prison population into two groups; those who might be rehabilitated and those who cannot be or are not worth our time to even try (child molesters, people who have gone through the program before). Those who will not be rehabilitated are there for life.
I was impressed with my boot camp experience. Those prisoners who want to earn release begin at the lowest rank. They will be very busy for at a minimum 12 hours a day. They will wake up early. They will make themselves presentable by putting on a uniform in the correct manner. They will stand in formation and be orderly. There will be a strict protocol for damn near everything they do. They will have Sunday as a day in which they can write correspondence, attended religious services, shower at their leisure, read, etc. but it would also be the only day they could iron and fold their clothes (and there would be a line for the iron), study for exams, practice required skills. Other than that their time would be controlled from the moment they woke until they crawled into bed, exhausted and anxiously awaiting their average of 5hrs of sleep a night, not to exceed 6 hrs per night.
These guys would practice drill and formation (marching), how to fold and organize their clothes, handshakes, customary greetings, etc. They’d have to get good at it.
What I’m driving at is there would not be the “you’re gonna get raped” type scene at the rehabilitationary (I don’t care if that’s not a word) prison. It’d be a high discipline environment. Good behavior would be recognized and rewarded, bad behavior would be addressed on the spot and the corrective action would contain a certain level of humiliation for the offender.
Anyone who simply wouldn’t comply spent time in a half-way prison waiting to either re-enter the rehabilitationary prison or go into permanent internment. I’d imagine for the permanent folks it would be a sort of survive or die situation. They, at that point, would be considered to be completely outside of civilization. They could face the jungle law they wished to inflict upon the rest of us. It would not be supervised other than making sure they could not escape and that they had the basic materials needed to provide for their own survival. Short of that I imagine we’d just stick with maximum security prisons. But I think the “prison island” scenario is much more just.
I think the prison boot camp should last no less than 6 months. A prisoner could potentially make it in 6 months, but it would typically take more than a year. They would have to advance through the ranks, first being a recruit, then taking recruit leadership positions and satisfactorily performing the duties of the positions they hold. Then they would have to compete for the top leadership positions among the recruits that require them to outperform other people vying for them. Their success or failure would depend on their ability to get the newest recruits onboard with the program. If they made it through all that they would enter a training program that would take place in confinement. If they did not do well in training they would potentially go back to the boot camp, or if that had been tried too many times they might go to permanent status.
Point being, if you are hurting people you will be removed from society. At that point you can either get on-board with not hurting people or you can go to the ungoverned wasteland (most likely a regular prison).
The motivation to succeed is there, imho.