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Grayson Allen

JazzyFresh said:
I could go on and explain how I feel these guys weren't utilized enough their rookie years(Deron, Hayward(5 ppg), Milsap) and how many of the other guys brought fourth were very Allen like as far as stats(Stockton(5ppg) turned out fine) but this is an absolute terrible discussion. Judging a rookie is honestly one of the worst sports conversations I can think of. Calling a player a bust or saying "we could done this in the second round" is completely unfair and has been proven wrong time and time again. Hell I remember Jerry Rice being labeled a bust. LOL I remember that dude calling Donovan a bust after 5 games. It's so incredibly stupid to me.

Is Grayson going to be a good player? I don't know. But to harp on a guy, especially a 21st pick, for not producing his rookie year is just dumb.
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Lol wut? Jerry Rice had a great rookie year with 927 yards despite starting just four games. And yes 927 was great. Before the last 10 years or so, no one had 1,000 yards as a rookie.
 
JazzyFresh said:
I could go on and explain how I feel these guys weren't utilized enough their rookie years(Deron, Hayward(5 ppg), Milsap) and how many of the other guys brought fourth were very Allen like as far as stats(Stockton(5ppg) turned out fine) but this is an absolute terrible discussion. Judging a rookie is honestly one of the worst sports conversations I can think of. Calling a player a bust or saying "we could done this in the second round" is completely unfair and has been proven wrong time and time again. Hell I remember Jerry Rice being labeled a bust. LOL I remember that dude calling Donovan a bust after 5 games. It's so incredibly stupid to me.

Is Grayson going to be a good player? I don't know. But to harp on a guy, especially a 21st pick, for not producing his rookie year is just dumb.
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Actually, it’s crucial to our understanding on how rookies weren’t utilized enough so please go into detail on this. I don’t recall ever thinking that Millsap wasn’t utilized enough. At the time we had Boozer and Okur, two outstanding big men. So that’s another name that I don’t recall ever being shafted by Sloan.

And Jerry Rice? What does he have to do with this? Jerry Rice had a very good rookie year by rookie standards as I remember. He seemed extremely utilized at a time when teams still ran the ball.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Lol wut? Jerry Rice had a great rookie year with 927 yards despite starting just four games. And yes 927 was great. Before the last 10 years or so, no one had 1,000 yards as a rookie.
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The 49ers, fresh off a victory in Super Bowl XIX, were 6-5 and fighting for their playoff lives. Joe Montana's passing numbers were off. Rice, the team's top draft pick, had 26 receptions in 11 games, but he also dropped 10 balls, some of them at the worst possible times. He was coming off a game in which he dropped two passes, fumbled once, and caught just one pass. Niners fans booed the rookie; local columnists made him the butt of jokes. Freddie Solomon, a respected veteran who caught touchdown passes in 10 straight games in 1984, had become the invisible man in the Niners offense while Montana and Rice played pitch 'n' drop.

But Walsh held his ground, supported Rice, and kept him in the weekly gameplan. "At some point, the boos will turn to cheers," predicted Walsh during a press conference on November 18th, 1985.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2006/too-deep-zone-jerry-rice-rookie-bust

 
candrew said:
Deron would have dropped dead if he played 39mpg his rookie year. He was woefully out of shape.

That was Sloan's main problem with him.
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That’s what I remember as well. That, and derons ****** attitude. I’m not really sure what people are bitching about here. Sloan played good rookies. He didn’t have anything against good players that could contribute to his team.
 
The Thriller said:
That’s what I remember as well. That, and derons ****** attitude. I’m not really sure what people are bitching about here. Sloan played good rookies. He didn’t have anything against good players that could contribute to his team.
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Not bitching just bringing up a point. I remember many here complaining about Derron coming off the bench and Milsap not getting enough playing time. That's with DWill being a #3 pick. All this is besides the point though.

The point about Jerry Rice was that fans are stupid and expect far too much sometimes. They expect things like a 21st pick rookie to come in and make an impact on a deep playoff caliber team.
 
JazzyFresh said:
The 49ers, fresh off a victory in Super Bowl XIX, were 6-5 and fighting for their playoff lives. Joe Montana's passing numbers were off. Rice, the team's top draft pick, had 26 receptions in 11 games, but he also dropped 10 balls, some of them at the worst possible times. He was coming off a game in which he dropped two passes, fumbled once, and caught just one pass. Niners fans booed the rookie; local columnists made him the butt of jokes. Freddie Solomon, a respected veteran who caught touchdown passes in 10 straight games in 1984, had become the invisible man in the Niners offense while Montana and Rice played pitch 'n' drop.

But Walsh held his ground, supported Rice, and kept him in the weekly gameplan. "At some point, the boos will turn to cheers," predicted Walsh during a press conference on November 18th, 1985.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2006/too-deep-zone-jerry-rice-rookie-bust
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That wouldn’t mean he’s a bust lol. It’s recounting his rookie shortcomings and struggles. And despite those he had almost 1,000 yards.
 
kabenac said:
Oh, yeah. The guy who averaged 4.0 points a game playing in college. He had NBA player written all over him. Real great example....
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Didn’t know that matters. Your statement sounded as if combine numbers prove court competency.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
That wouldn’t mean he’s a bust lol. It’s recounting his rookie shortcomings and struggles. And despite those he had almost 1,000 yards.
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The point was that fans were calling him a bust. That sometimes rookies struggle even for the greats. It's common sense to me. Calling a rookie a bust or judging the rest of his career off of a rookie season is just plain stupid to me.
 
Alfalfa said:
I'm not impressed either. But it takes some players time to adapt to the NBA game. We have him at the end of the bench for a couple more years. Might become a good enough role player.
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Is this about bradley or Allen?
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Didn’t know that matters. Your statement sounded as if combine numbers prove court competency.
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It was to display he has the physical tools needed to be an NBA player. In college he had the grit, stats and reputation to back up he could score, work hard and he useful.

If he continues to work hard I think he'll be fine.
 
kabenac said:
It was to display he has the physical tools needed to be an NBA player. In college he had the grit, stats and reputation to back up he could score, work hard and he useful.

If he continues to work hard I think he'll be fine.
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His stats were meh. He shot over 37% from three one year. That’s it.
 
JazzyFresh said:
The point was that fans were calling him a bust. That sometimes rookies struggle even for the greats. It's common sense to me. Calling a rookie a bust or judging the rest of his career off of a rookie season is just plain stupid to me.
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I get it it there’s no comparison between Rice’s rookie year and Allen’s.

That said, I do get your point and agree. But, and I think seattle said it, the pick was sort of Bradley-ish.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
I get it it there’s no comparison between Rice’s rookie year and Allen’s.

That said, I do get your point and agree. But, and I think seattle said it, the pick was sort of Bradley-ish.
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I was comparing the dumbness of "results right now or you suck" fan bases. That's all. This has always bothered me in more sports than just basketball. People expect every rookie to come out ready to dominate the game. Some players are ready, others take a few years.

I can't argue with the Bradley thing but I think the FO knows what they're doing and are fine and fully prepared with Grayson sitting back and learning just like they did with Rudy. He's not a necessity right this moment. They understand patience unlike the couch GM's here.
 
JazzyFresh said:
I was comparing the dumbness of "results right now or you suck" fan bases. That's all. This has always bothered me in more sports than just basketball.

I can't argue with the Bradley thing but I think the FO knows what they're doing and are fine and fully prepared with Grayson sitting back and learning just like they did with Rudy. He's not a necessity right this moment.
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I think his age, average college production, lack of length/size, and his athleticism not being something that really translates in-game all together spells trouble. Didn’t like the pick then or now. But who knows.
 
This thread is really weird and people are really stretching whatever point they’re making. So let’s talk about the truth:

Grayson Allen is 4th on the PG depth chart and 3rd or lower on the SG depth chart which is to be expected. The issue in drafting him is as much about where he was destined to be on the depth chart early on as much as it was his pedestrian physical ability. The bottom line here, though, is that it’s irrational to expect a guy to just come in at totally random spots and crush it.

Yeah, he might be a bust, but that’s usually what you get anyway. It would be nice if he got some opportunities but we’ll see how this all unfolds.

Sincerely,
-A Guy That Absolutely Hated the Pick
 
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Wes Mantooth said:
I think his age, average college production, lack of length/size, and his athleticism not being something that really translates in-game all together spells trouble. Didn’t like the pick then or now. But who knows.
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But at least he knows how to play basketball.
 
Looking at those pics of him on vacation, he looks very young and certainly not ripped, as if, as athletic as he is, he has solid room to improve his body even more, which could help in multiple ways, including his athleticism.
 
Best attributes and these are legit- he can get his shot, is a good passer and has a high bball iq. The ability to get his shot is huge- especially for the jazz, but he has to have it start going in the basket. If he can do that he might turn in to a player.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Best attributes and these are legit- he can get his shot, is a good passer and has a high bball iq. The ability to get his shot is huge- especially for the jazz, but he has to have it start going in the basket. If he can do that he might turn in to a player.
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In the little I’ve seen of him, I have been impressed with his first step. And I feel like that can get better with conditioning, perfecting his craft, etc.

If he can be good at that, I think he could also be fairly good at attacking the rim. I think he has the balls to do so. And he averaged 7.0 FT as a sophomore.
 
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