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The Player's "STAND"

carolinajazz said:
....it's true, the owners are trying to protect themselves....from THEMSELVES! However, I cannot sympathize with players who play so pathetically on a regular basis and STILL get hugh paychecks per game for doing so! I do not shell out big bucks to watch any of these clowns....nor do I spend my money to watch movie stars or other entertainers do what they do! They, of course, are as overpaid as any NBA player or other professional athlete. I rarely, if ever, go to the theater....and when I do I grab a early afternoon show...and bring in my own popcorn and soda and candy!
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YOU ARE STUPID and clearly dont knwo how the theather works. the movie stars receive the money from the tickets. the theather almost resceives no money from the ticket. they are using the over inflated popcorn and soda prices to keep their head up. so by not byiing popcorn and soda ur not screwing the movie star but the theather. who has a hard time keeping open his theather
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
In response to another poster who railed on players shoving their money in our faces, just how do they do that? By living well? What the hell do you expect them to do? Buy a Corolla and shop at TJ Max? The wealthy conspicuously spend, and they've done it since almost the dawn of time. How many of you, if you made incredible amounts of money, would not buy nice cars, clothes, houses, etc? Why rail on rich, young black men for conspicuous consumption, when rich old white men have been spending conspicuously for a hell of a lot longer?.
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he is saying not flaunting it in our faces. not going on mtv cribs. get it? thinking you misunderstand him
 
They are the best of the best and CAN do this.

Let's put it this way. Say you were the best chef in the world, and someone came to you and said 'We are only going to pay you this much because, lets face it, being a chef isn't that important and it's plenty to live on anyway.'

You'd say... uh.. no. And go find someone to pay you a ton because you are the best.

NBA players are the best of the best. They make money, and they have the power to do this. People trying to compare them to other unions etc are, frankly, wrong. Why? Because sadly, postal workers and warehouse stockers and firemen can be replaced.

There is no one better to replace these people with.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
In response to another poster who railed on players shoving their money in our faces, just how do they do that? By living well? What the hell do you expect them to do? Buy a Corolla and shop at TJ Max? The wealthy conspicuously spend, and they've done it since almost the dawn of time. How many of you, if you made incredible amounts of money, would not buy nice cars, clothes, houses, etc? Why rail on rich, young black men for conspicuous consumption, when rich old white men have been spending conspicuously for a hell of a lot longer?
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You're completely missing the point. It's now about why many people feel this way, it's about what you're going to do about it. Fair or not, I(and many others) feel the players don't exactly make an effort to make themselves easy for fans to relate to. Calling us jealous or haters accomplishes nothing, except to drive that wedge even further. Then they find themselves in difficult labour negotiations and they wonder why us fans have little sympathy for them. It's because we've had very little sympathy for you for years and you've done nothing to reassure us.
 
JimLes said:
You're completely missing the point. It's now about why many people feel this way, it's about what you're going to do about it. Fair or not, I(and many others) feel the players don't exactly make an effort to make themselves easy for fans to relate to. Calling us jealous or haters accomplishes nothing, except to drive that wedge even further. Then they find themselves in difficult labour negotiations and they wonder why us fans have little sympathy for them. It's because we've had very little sympathy for you for years and you've done nothing to reassure us.
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I deleted my response after concluding that it's probably not worth it. Suffice to say, I understand the points made, sympathize with them, but do not fully agree. I'll leave it at that.
 
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jimmy eat jazz said:
I deleted my response after concluding that it's probably not worth it. Suffice to say, I understand the points made, sympathize with them, but do not fully agree. I'll leave it at that.
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We can agree to disagree while respecting each other's standpoints. That's the beauty of civil discourse on the internet. :)

At the end of the day, we all want to see Jazz basketball. This year, next year, and hopefully 20 years from now so I can annoy my teenage children by forcing them to watch the Jazz and regaling them with tall stories about Karl Malone.
 
Since the major sticking point is the hard cap I was trying to think of a way of having stricter/harder soft cap that didn't alienate the smaller markets even more (meaning making it even harder and only the large market teams would and could go into it). So with that said forgive my ignorance but couldn't a starting structure point be (assumption in keeping similar current reasons to why you can go over it) you could only go over it so many years in a row like say 2 or 3years for example, keeping the LA's, NY's, DA's for example from living in it year after year and also maybe put in once you've come out you can't go into back into it for a certain time as well again say 2yrs.


Also of course there has to be a way to get rid of completely guaranteed contracts, partial guaranteed to different and easier ways to include buy outs and make it harder to just cut the low end contracts but easier to for the high end max contracts, as a way to protect the players that couldn't really afford to just have their contracts just cut.
 
//r00t 4 Jazz said:
Since the major sticking point is the hard cap I was trying to think of a way of having stricter/harder soft cap that didn't alienate the smaller markets even more (meaning making it even harder and only the large market teams would and could go into it). So with that said forgive my ignorance but couldn't a starting structure point be (assumption in keeping similar current reasons to why you can go over it) you could only go over it so many years in a row like say 2 or 3years for example, keeping the LA's, NY's, DA's for example from living in it year after year and also maybe put in once you've come out you can't go into back into it for a certain time as well again say 2yrs.


Also of course there has to be a way to get rid of completely guaranteed contracts, partial guaranteed to different and easier ways to include buy outs and make it harder to just cut the low end contracts but easier to for the high end max contracts, as a way to protect the players that couldn't really afford to just have their contracts just cut.
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I believe they already agreed on the non-guaranteed contract issues. Its all about the hard cap vs soft cap now. Even though the deadline is approaching both sides have just been mostly posturing on this issue, the first one to flinch basically loses billions over the next 10 years. At the end of the day a compromise will be made on this "flex cap". In 1999 the rating were in the sewer and there wasn't much to lose. Both sides do not want to risk ratings returning to those levels.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
You may not shell out money for these other clowns, but plenty of other people do. And if they do, it is because they believe that these clowns possess unique talents that they are willing to pay for.

I understand the frustration that players getting paid big bucks sometimes or often mail it in. A prime reason I favor getting rid of guaranteed contracts.

Why rail on rich, young black men for conspicuous consumption, when rich old white men have been spending conspicuously for a hell of a lot longer?

I understand that the situation in the NBA is out of whack and does need to be adjusted. Frankly, I think a lot, though surely not all, of this anger it is motivated by rank jealousy.
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....what "other" people do with or spend their money is up to them. If they want to spend large sums of money to see NBA clowns or "real" clowns from a Circus, that's up to them to decide!! If they feel such "unique" talents deserve to make all that money, then, like the foolish owners, they can throw as much money at them as they want! And it's not a race issue for me, although I'm sure behind the scenes some of the owners are fed up with the "thug" and "tattoo" image that dominates todays NBA. It never bothered me back in the 70's and 80's how much any of these players made, white or black. But today it does! But it's not jealousy or envy....just a total waste of money on such a poor investment that tee's me off!! But your post was well written....and I'll take it under advisement!
 
JimLes said:
The problem with the players is that they have traditionally done an atrocious job getting the fans on their side. You just cannot rub your wealth in people's faces the way some NBA players do and expect fans to be on your side in a dispute over money. Especially, as many pointed out, at a time when many average people are feeling the effects of the recession. It's just bad PR. Now, the owners have the advantage of being largely anonymous. Sure, there are a few outspoken ones everyone know like Cuban, but who the hell know who owns the Spurs? Or the Magic? Or even the Celtics?

Fair or not, players are in the public eye while the owners are not. It's up to players to get the fans on their side, and they do not seem to be doing a very good job. You just can't go on MTV Cribs, show off your ridiculous mansion, then expect me to feel bad that you might lose that mansion. I just don't understand what the players believe their moral ground here is, and how they intend to explain it as such to fans.
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.....good post! Then you can throw in the pathetic play on display by players making 100,000 plus PER GAME (no defense, poor shooting, multiple turnovers, unable to remember plays, indications of being totally uncoachable) and educated fans are NOT going to sympathize with the players, that's for sure!
 
this year was the first year in 6 years i did not take nba lp broadband. as prices keep rising and rising out of control.
doens tthe nba realise they cant jsut infinatly keep raising prices they wont get more income by raising prices. cus they lose customers. so sooner or later the system will collapse
 
PKM said:
I'm for whichever side convinces the other that the one-and-done rule becomes two-and-done. ;)
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NO!!!!! If that happens then Utah is yet again screwed on another draft where we will for sure have two picks in the top 20, possibly two lottery picks.
 
I find the OP interesting.
I am bothered more by the story of the Dockworkers Union than I am by the Basketball Players Union.
I would gladly work on the docks for 100k a year. What gives union the right to keep the jobs for their friends and family , and keep wages at 200k a year, and pass those costs on to the American consumers?
 
PKM said:
I'm for whichever side convinces the other that the one-and-done rule becomes two-and-done. ;)
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Better for the college game and for the NBA game...although it might actually hurt Calipari if some of his players actually have to stay for more than a year. He'll have out space out his recruiting a little.
 
northeast said:
I find the OP interesting.
I am bothered more by the story of the Dockworkers Union than I am by the Basketball Players Union.
I would gladly work on the docks for 100k a year. What gives union the right to keep the jobs for their friends and family , and keep wages at 200k a year, and pass those costs on to the American consumers?
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.....here's a typical union workers day at the docks: suppose to start work at 8 am....they start about 8:20. They take there first break at 10 am playing cards until 10:30...back to work about 10:45. Lunch starts at 12 noon, but they stop working at 11:45. Back to work at 1 pm....but they don't actually start working till 1:15. Afternoon break is 3 pm till 3:30 but they won't be back working till 3:45. There day ends at 5 pm, but they generally stop working about 4:30. They get EVERY conceiveable holiday off including "Ground Hogs Day" with full pay. If they are unloading anything and they drop it and it hits the floor, they won't pick it up. They are the biggest "Gold brickers" in the history of the American work force! I've got more first hand stories if your interested!
 
Just for fun, your 1995 Utah Jazz:


1 Karl Malone $3,676,000
2 John Stockton $2,800,000
3 Antoine Carr $2,525,000
4 Chris Morris $2,500,000
5 Felton Spencer $2,181,000
6 Jeff Hornacek $2,121,000
7 Adam Keefe $1,650,000
8 David Benoit $1,200,000
9 Greg Ostertag $498,000
10 Greg Foster $350,000
11 Andy Toolson $310,000
12 Bryon Russell $300,000

Total: $20,011,250
Kobe Bryant 2011: $24,806,250
 
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