El Paso Shooting
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Great find would rep if I could. Thought it was interesting how the author compared trump’s vitriol to that in Rwanda the began the Rwandan genocide. Hateful words matter!
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
This essentially summarizes Donald trump’s words today... and basically all of his interviews and press conferences:
Tom Nichols is a conservative btw
Tom Nichols is a conservative btw
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Warren nails it:
The look on Melania's face as she stood next to him on the tarmac spoke volumes. Maybe she'll poison him.
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
Cool. I agree that it can’t be forced. But I would also assert that whiteness has been forced on all of us of Euro descent as if it were a scientific truth.
Only false identities are built upon lies. I agree with you that the culture that you’ve built around you in the mountain west is authentic. But none of that is based upon a construct whose Original intent was meant to justify the slave trade.
Nevertheless, our president is able to excite his voting base by simply inferring racist ideals that center on that construct.
Whiteness may not be as deleterious to you as I perceive it to be. But it is not helping us. It should be exposed for the lie that it is.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm all about disregarding notions of race as something to base an identity around.
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
It is easy to undermine them. Once you identify the construct as a farce, suddenly the term “white supremacy” loses its meaning.
Engorged On Unborn Gore
Well-Known Member
But this is also why I’m interested in people looking back to their European descent.
Because your ancestors weren’t simply miners.It is far more complex than that, and there’s probably a lot more for you to discover.
In fairness the right wing in this country really was the first to reinvent xenophobia, John Howard made immigration the center piece of his 2001 re-election campaign, it all began there and led to the point now where we keep people in south pacific gulags. It also built and energised a rump of far right voters, (almost all of them in Queensland and Western Australia) who are significant because the flow of their preferences basically decide who constitutes government. (Queensland more or less won government for the libs in the last election)
Howard's manipulation of the media and the Murdoch press' relish for the spreading his anti immigrant propaganda was a huge part of making this happen. The left should have stood up and called the PM a racist outright but lacked the courage to do so. The way the government controlled the story was fairly simple, secrecy, lies, disinformation, dog whistles, the words black and Muslims were never mentioned but it was obvious what he was on about.
The right learned a lot from Howard and their are extensive links between him and people like Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, and senior figures behind Trump, the right has rediscovered 'the other' as a way to continue to divide society.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Sigh.
Let’s not both sides this already. This is the third white supremacist attack we’ve seen in what... 3 months? 5 months? Right wing terrorism against Muslims, Jews, and immigrants is the #1 threat the FBI is seeing these days.
Please don’t both sides this.
Jazzta
Guest
Not meaning to both side it. Just saying that any kind of physical retaliation would just make it worse. A good start would be impeaching Trump, it’s alarming that Trump was referenced in the shooter’s manifesto.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I have no reason to think these attacks will be “retaliated.” The left is much more tolerant and tries to solve these issues while the right hopes to choke out the clock until the media moves on and return to their pro gun and xenophobic ways.
I absolutely have reason to think they’ll be replicated. In 48 hrs these attacks will be forgotten by the media, trump and Fox News will be back to spewing racism and hate, and the push for gun regulation will die. Here in a few weeks we’ll have another mass shooting, probably a school since the school year is starting soon. Or a church, probably a black one or a Jewish synagogue. And we’ll be back to arguing about gun control and right wing terrorism.
It happened after sandy Hook, Vegas, Parkland, and it’ll happen within 48 hours from now.
Seriously, in 48 hours we’ll be back to arguing about Hillary Clinton’s emails or Elizabeth Warren’s voice or AOC’s Twitter. Trump will be back to spewing nonsense. I’ll quote this post once that happens. My prediction will be I’ll be quoting this before Wednesday ends.
Nope. Not at all what I was saying. Not at all.
Okay, first oF all, when we're talking about gun violence in the U.S. let's talk about the biggest problems first.
The biggest issue, by far the most murders, happens with semi-auto handguns. Add suicides and accidental gun deaths, semi-auto handguns are the biggest issue... by a lot.
But we don't want to address the biggest issue first. We want to address one of the smallest. High-profile public space mass shootings.
So if that's the problem we want to solve, don't generalize U.S. gun violence and then pretend you're addressing that larger issue when you're addressing a very specific cause of gun deaths that accounts for a very small fraction of total gun deaths.
So, public space mass shootings. Semi-automatic rifles are definitely the gun of choice. Partly for functional reasons, partly because these rifles are in style and the best selling firearms over the last decade or so. They are currently the F150 of firearms, more than most their owners ever need, but when you're keeping up with the bubbas it's pretty much a must have.
These semi-auto rifles have a ****-ton of fun accessories that can be clamped right on them, from red dot heads-up sights, to flashlights, to bipods, to bull-pup fore grips, and on and on and on. But the big one, the one that makes these easy for low skill shooters to do a lot of damage with in these mass shootings are the magazines with large capacities. Commonly known as hi-cap mags, these most often come in 20-round and 30-round capacities, but you can get more. If you want a lot more you can get those drum magazines.
These AR-15 rifles are pretty easy to shoot. The recoil isn't bad at all, they are light for what they are. They aren't too long so you can swing the barrel around pretty easily.
So this is top of the list for "reasonable gun control." First, they may do what California has done, and restrict the number of "assault style features" you can have. So things like collapsable stock, detachable magazine, flash suppressor, fore grip, etc. But the only one that really matters is the magazine capacity and having a detachable magazine. The rest are either just very practical features that in some cases make the gun safer to use, like the adjustable stock, which makes it so the user can properly hold the rifle, or they're mostly cosmetic but have minimal benefits that have never really come into play in these mass shootings, like a flash suppressors. The fore grip looks aggressive, but it's purely cosmetic and really just allows a person to shoot less accurately, which makes the gun less safe even when used responsibly.
So if you want to limit magazine capacity and not allow semi-auto rifles to have detachable magazines... say that.
If you don't want any semi-auto rifles at all... say that (you'll be banning a lot of legitimate hunting rifles if that's the rule)
This is a semi-auto Remington 7400 30-06. This is a hunting rifle.
But while AR-15s are the popular gun at the moment I personally don't think they are much more effective for the kinds of mass shootings we've seen than your typical semi-auto handguns. You can get pretty high capacity magazines for 9mm handguns, they are generally easier and faster to change magazines. They wouldn't work as well over medium to long distances, but most of these things aren't really happening beyond 50ft. Within 50ft I'd argue you'd be better off with 3-4 9mm same model handguns carrying 16rnds per magazine with a belt full of additional magazines.
But since these mass shootings are more about the show and the shock, 9mm handguns haven't been the weapon of choice. Stupid since they weigh a lot less, the ammo weighs a lot less, the magazines are smaller round-for-round, magazine changing is faster and easier (with moderate skill) and you're not shooting at "hard" targets so the 9mm +p is going to do everything in that situation that a .223/5.56mm would do.
But if it makes everyone happy, let's start by banning semi-autos with high capacity detachable magazines. Maybe it'll make a difference?
The biggest issue, by far the most murders, happens with semi-auto handguns. Add suicides and accidental gun deaths, semi-auto handguns are the biggest issue... by a lot.
But we don't want to address the biggest issue first. We want to address one of the smallest. High-profile public space mass shootings.
So if that's the problem we want to solve, don't generalize U.S. gun violence and then pretend you're addressing that larger issue when you're addressing a very specific cause of gun deaths that accounts for a very small fraction of total gun deaths.
So, public space mass shootings. Semi-automatic rifles are definitely the gun of choice. Partly for functional reasons, partly because these rifles are in style and the best selling firearms over the last decade or so. They are currently the F150 of firearms, more than most their owners ever need, but when you're keeping up with the bubbas it's pretty much a must have.
These semi-auto rifles have a ****-ton of fun accessories that can be clamped right on them, from red dot heads-up sights, to flashlights, to bipods, to bull-pup fore grips, and on and on and on. But the big one, the one that makes these easy for low skill shooters to do a lot of damage with in these mass shootings are the magazines with large capacities. Commonly known as hi-cap mags, these most often come in 20-round and 30-round capacities, but you can get more. If you want a lot more you can get those drum magazines.
These AR-15 rifles are pretty easy to shoot. The recoil isn't bad at all, they are light for what they are. They aren't too long so you can swing the barrel around pretty easily.
So this is top of the list for "reasonable gun control." First, they may do what California has done, and restrict the number of "assault style features" you can have. So things like collapsable stock, detachable magazine, flash suppressor, fore grip, etc. But the only one that really matters is the magazine capacity and having a detachable magazine. The rest are either just very practical features that in some cases make the gun safer to use, like the adjustable stock, which makes it so the user can properly hold the rifle, or they're mostly cosmetic but have minimal benefits that have never really come into play in these mass shootings, like a flash suppressors. The fore grip looks aggressive, but it's purely cosmetic and really just allows a person to shoot less accurately, which makes the gun less safe even when used responsibly.
So if you want to limit magazine capacity and not allow semi-auto rifles to have detachable magazines... say that.
If you don't want any semi-auto rifles at all... say that (you'll be banning a lot of legitimate hunting rifles if that's the rule)
This is a semi-auto Remington 7400 30-06. This is a hunting rifle.
But while AR-15s are the popular gun at the moment I personally don't think they are much more effective for the kinds of mass shootings we've seen than your typical semi-auto handguns. You can get pretty high capacity magazines for 9mm handguns, they are generally easier and faster to change magazines. They wouldn't work as well over medium to long distances, but most of these things aren't really happening beyond 50ft. Within 50ft I'd argue you'd be better off with 3-4 9mm same model handguns carrying 16rnds per magazine with a belt full of additional magazines.
But since these mass shootings are more about the show and the shock, 9mm handguns haven't been the weapon of choice. Stupid since they weigh a lot less, the ammo weighs a lot less, the magazines are smaller round-for-round, magazine changing is faster and easier (with moderate skill) and you're not shooting at "hard" targets so the 9mm +p is going to do everything in that situation that a .223/5.56mm would do.
But if it makes everyone happy, let's start by banning semi-autos with high capacity detachable magazines. Maybe it'll make a difference?
They are either racist or willing to tolerate his racism in order to achieve other political goals that they value more than racism. I know many people who think trump is a racist buffoon but they are do strongly pro life that they vote for him, for example.
Jazzta
Guest
It’s not fair put all of the right under the same umbrella of xenophobia, it doesn’t help the discussion.
Second of all, what I have advocated for for many years now is that in a nation with the gun rights we have, firearm safety and basic use should be taught in our schools. Their needs to be an emphasis on disciplined, responsible ownership.
Nobody can make the NRA do anything, but the NRA ought to be shamed into focusing less on blocking any and all gun legislation and primarily focus on educating gun owners on the safe and responsible use of their firearms. They should be at the forefront of setting the standards for when guns can, but more importantly when they can't, be used for self-defense.
But placing no hope on what the NRA might or might not do, assuming they'll continue to be more guns in more hands and if you get a little bit nervous start shooting, I think the government has a much larger responsibility in explaining when and where firearms can be used in self-defense.
I'm all for competency testing to purchase and to continue to own a gun. I'm all for a specific third-party (not hired by the seller, or the buyer, randomly assigned) psychological evaluation before purchasing and in order to continue possessing firearms.
I'm all for removing gun rights for any person who has displayed violent behavior that gets the attention of law enforcement, especially domestic violence. And when I say domestic violence, I mean by anyone in the house. You wife starts smashing your playstation controllers, cops get called, you no longer get to keep guns in that house.
I'm tentatively all for registration.
Nobody can make the NRA do anything, but the NRA ought to be shamed into focusing less on blocking any and all gun legislation and primarily focus on educating gun owners on the safe and responsible use of their firearms. They should be at the forefront of setting the standards for when guns can, but more importantly when they can't, be used for self-defense.
But placing no hope on what the NRA might or might not do, assuming they'll continue to be more guns in more hands and if you get a little bit nervous start shooting, I think the government has a much larger responsibility in explaining when and where firearms can be used in self-defense.
I'm all for competency testing to purchase and to continue to own a gun. I'm all for a specific third-party (not hired by the seller, or the buyer, randomly assigned) psychological evaluation before purchasing and in order to continue possessing firearms.
I'm all for removing gun rights for any person who has displayed violent behavior that gets the attention of law enforcement, especially domestic violence. And when I say domestic violence, I mean by anyone in the house. You wife starts smashing your playstation controllers, cops get called, you no longer get to keep guns in that house.
I'm tentatively all for registration.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Mandating firearm education is not a very good look, domestically or internationally.