We have all been commenting on Turkey's coaching or lack thereof. Why aren't the coaches seeing what we see and what should Turkey really do? Here is my 2-cents, what's yours? Turkey is shooting 28.6% from the 3-point line in Eurobasket. They attempted 24 3-point shots against France. Kerem Tunceri is 1/18 (5.6%) (he attempted the game-winning 3 against Poland), Akyol is 1/12 (8.3%), Arslan is 3/12 (25%), and Turkoglu is 5/26 (19.2%). Preldzic, Onan, and Ilyasova, on the other hand are shooting 50%, 50%, and 46% respectively. This is do-or-die time for Turkey. Give the minutes to those who are producing and play inside-out with Osik and Kanter. That is all, again!
Turkey's Last Stand (Eurobasket Edition)
- Thread starter BYE
- Start date
It's just the coaches style. He appears to be the Don Nelson of Euro Ball.
GVC
Well-Known Member
As I've said before, neither of Turkey's point guards (Tunceri, Arslan) should get any playing time if the Turks have any hope of winning more games. They've both been terrible, and since Turkey has 2 more than capable ball handlers who don't suck (Preldzic, Hedo), there really is no reason for them to see the floor. Some combination of the following 7 players should be used at all times:
Asik
Savas
Kanter
Ilyasova
Hedo
Preldzic
Onan
These are 40 minute games, so a 7 man rotation should be sufficient. Of course, even going big like this doesn't guarantee that the Turks are going to force defenses to stay honest by getting the ball inside from time to time. I've yet to see their coach diagram anything during timeouts, and it shows on the court. Where did they find this half-wit?
Onan and Preldzic getting minutes at 1 and 2 cannot hurt Kanter at 4 and 5. Turkoglu is hit or miss, but both he and Preldzic are better PGs than any of their "actual" PGs. Tunceri has no business being out there unless for a specific reason (foul trouble, rest Onan).
GVC
Well-Known Member
Just so everyone understands, Tunceri and Arslan have combined to play 236 of the 240 minutes available at point guard (I don't think they've shared the floor this tournament, but I could be wrong). In that time, they've combined to shoot 15 - 59 from the floor, including 4 - 30 from 3. They also can't defend to save their lives (Onan is definitely the best choice to defend the 1, but I'm uncertain if Preldzic could do so...although he can't be much worse than Tunceri). I fail to see how going big would hurt Turkey's chances. Can anyone please explain?
Someone else will have to tell you that one.
All I know is that even if a team really tries to pack it in, Preldzic and Onan are going to do better at punishing you than Arslan or Tunceri (or whatever other scrubs have been getting). Playing Preldzic at the 2 also allows Turkoglu to play more minutes (who is no slouch), and could even allow for Ilyasova to play 3 (and he's one of their best shooters). Asik deserves more court time, as does Kanter, so shifting Ilyasova sometimes should help with that.
I get that he wants to keep players fresh and give everyone an opportunity, but everyone has gotten their opportunity, and it's clear who deserves to be on the floor most. And now is not the time to be making decisions out of principle. It's time to win.
GVC
Well-Known Member
200 minutes for 7 players. That's less than 29 minutes each, with a day in between games. These guys are accustomed to playing that much, and the marginal benefit of keeping them on the floor an additional 5 minutes is far greater than the marginal benefit of filling those minutes with Tunceri and Arslan.
Turkey's coach has neither an offense nor semi-rational rotations. I really don't understand what he's doing.
Just so everyone knows, I haven't seen a lot of stats on players except Kanter. It's good to know that my eye-test matches reality (although how could you miss it?).
Also, if Turkey is that concerned about getting burned in the backcourt, there is still zone, and I don't think anyone on Germany is going to have a field day in the backcourt either.
Also, if Turkey is that concerned about getting burned in the backcourt, there is still zone, and I don't think anyone on Germany is going to have a field day in the backcourt either.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Dude, Tunceri is a turnstile. Onan is their best perimeter defender by far, and should be defending opposing point guards whenever possible.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Onan has been my favorite all-around Turkish player in this tournament. Loads of heart, and enough skill to make it count.
Onan cant be 1, and he was never 1. Dont you see he has a bad ball handling?I watch him for long years and he wasnt even close to his current performance for years, he is a good example of how basketball players can improve their games even in later ages. Tunceri is a very good guard but this tourney he sucks i dont know why and once his confidence is low he is like garbage. Preldzic may play 1 at times but you cant rely on him as a pg all game long.
I agree that they are better than our pgs but you cant make radical changes right away, coach cant risk it right now. I am sure he is also disappointed with pg performance, and his mistake was, he didnt get a third pg into the squad, he prefered another SG-SF guy who is very young and wont find any playing time.
From now on he can only hope that some miracle happens to his pgs and they wont suck. But after France lose, i dont see much chance for Turkey anymore. We may beat germany but not Serbia. They are always a very frustrating team for us to beat and they have vengeance from last year. Will be such an intense game.
You need to get away from these rigid positional notions. PGs don't HAVE to handle the ball. Preldzic and Hedo are better at handling the ball, distributing, and hitting their shots than Tunceri and Arslan. Turkey has a great luxury in having the size that they do, especially since it translates to all skill sets. The only question in playing so big is defending smaller, quicker players, which Onan does better than anyone on Turkey ALREADY.
Germany's strengths are their bigs which Turkey can at least handle. Germany has no answer for Turkey if they use their SFs as ballhandling wings. Turkey can win, but not with the mystifying strategy (or lack thereof) that they've been employing.
I agree that Onan is a good defender and he is performing well in this tournament, but he can NEVER be a 1, im watching the guy for almost 10 years.
Also Preldzic plays 2 time to time, together with Hedo. It is an idea that we can use preldzic as 1 and onan, hedo, ersan, omer near him but i dont know how would coach dare to do this, it is not easy for a guy to make so radical changes in his first tourney.
Also it is already a miracle Enes finds playing time here in this tourney. If Semih wasnt injured , he could barely find it because he didnt play ball for 2 years and in Turkey the veterans always are one step ahead to get playing time. I think Kanter already proved with his performance so far that he is a stud
Also Preldzic plays 2 time to time, together with Hedo. It is an idea that we can use preldzic as 1 and onan, hedo, ersan, omer near him but i dont know how would coach dare to do this, it is not easy for a guy to make so radical changes in his first tourney.
Also it is already a miracle Enes finds playing time here in this tourney. If Semih wasnt injured , he could barely find it because he didnt play ball for 2 years and in Turkey the veterans always are one step ahead to get playing time. I think Kanter already proved with his performance so far that he is a stud
GVC
Well-Known Member
Hedo and Preldzic already handle the ball a lot when they're on the court. If you keep one of them on the court at all times, Onan doesn't ever have to be the primary ball handler. Wouldn't you agree that Onan is a much better defender at the 1 and shooter than Tunceri (in this tournament)?
Onan will make many TOs if he tries to bring the ball half court. I agree at times Preldzic can play 1, but every serious team has a legit PG anyway. Calderon, Parker, Teodosic, Kalneitis .... so it would be funny if we play without a real pg all game long. If i can find previous videos of Tunceri i will post it here, he wasnt that bad before, he was very good actually. Now he lost confidence and he is getting worse
GVC
Well-Known Member
1. Onan doesn't have to bring the ball up if Hedo and/or Preldzic are on the court.
2. Even with Tunceri/Arslan on the court, Turkey doesn't have a legit PG.