Tough Day To Be In Law Enforcement

[The Thriller]

Seems like he’s worried about losing a few senators and is tweeting to keep them in line

 

[NAOS]

Can someone please give Archie a ****ing strong tranquilizer?

 

[One Brow]

I’m going to put this one in a spoiler for graphic content:

Retired police officer (black) killed by a looter over TVs. For all the white people saying to just shut up and listen, and for failing to distinguish between protest and riot, or to even suggest its offensive and silencing to even make such a distinction, how many of these individuals is it appropriate to sacrifice to make that voice heard? Do we continue to conflate the protestors with the rioters/looters, because we need to understand that anger?

When we ‘understand’ the anger that fuels the violence, who are the victims?

We should probably also separate the instigators looking to cause trouble or take advantage of chaos from the those who get angry, particularly when those who get angry at police over-reactions.

Did you notice this particular looter happened to be white?

 

[One Brow]

Rest easy, David Dorn. I hope it's hard to sleep tonight for you virtue signalers condoning this ****.

Who condones the white guys trying to make protesters look bad?

 

[One Brow]

I don't know what you just said.

Should have been "or" instead of "of".

 

[Archie Moses]

Should have been "or" instead of "of".

Gotcha.

I constantly have to reread what I write because my brain or me types one thing while I think another or I need to slow down - and I'm a terrible speller.

 

[infection]

We should probably also separate the instigators looking to cause trouble or take advantage of chaos from the those who get angry, particularly when those who get angry at police over-reactions.

Did you notice this particular looter happened to be white?

I didn’t see any of the looters. But do you believe I have any supposition on the race of the looter, or care if they’re black or white?

My position is simple:

There’s a lot of peaceful protest and then there’s rioting and looting. From the get go, white people have come out defending and rationalizing the violence and destruction (and, in essence, inadvertently conflating it with protest). These arguments came under the idea of “understanding” what the violence is telling us, and also to not judge. [and as a side note, I’ve been the earliest and probably loudest voice saying that a lot of this probably isn’t caused by the black communities themselves]. I don’t speak for black people. But I am speaking on JFC, which is largely white, and that white census of our board (and the white census I’ve seen all over social media) is feeling it necessary to just “shut up and listen” and views being concerned about the violence as further evidence of white privileged. I believe this is because many white peoples have the underlying assumption that the violent blowback is going to be against white society, and a belief that ‘since we’ve dished it out, it’s appropriate for us to have a turn to take a small dose.’ But there’s a very ironic racism that underlies that, one that views African Americans as savages. And what all these white spokespeople for the black communities don’t understand is that this blowback, this violence, this destruction and death, is largely not going to be borne by the white community, so they are making no offer of sacrifice. The people affected by this are disproportionately black and minority communities. The jobs lost, the business destroyed that serve the community, and, yes, the people murdered.

So while one may believe it is the ultimate sign of contrition to extend “shut up and listen” to the violence, notice that their words are much more enabling than the words of so many black leaders, among them President Obama. And if the backdrop of everything is the inherent power and privilege of white America, what better way to facilitate further death and destruction than to have the white community “understand” the violence, and see more black homes destroyed, more black businesses going under, more black communities suffering, and more black people dying.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

I didn’t see any of the looters. But do you believe I have any supposition on the race of the looter, or care if they’re black or white?

My position is simple:

There’s a lot of peaceful protest and then there’s rioting and looting. From the get go, white people have come out defending and rationalizing the violence and destruction (and, in essence, inadvertently conflating it with protest). These arguments came under the idea of “understanding” what the violence is telling us, and also to not judge. [and as a side note, I’ve been the earliest and probably loudest voice saying that a lot of this probably isn’t caused by the black communities themselves]. I don’t speak for black people. But I am speaking on JFC, which is largely white, and that white census of our board (and the white census I’ve seen all over social media) is feeling it necessary to just “shut up and listen” and views being concerned about the violence as further evidence of white privileged. I believe this is because many white peoples have the underlying assumption that the violent blowback is going to be against white society, and a belief that ‘since we’ve dished it out, it’s appropriate for us to have a turn to take a small dose.’ But there’s a very ironic racism that underlies that, one that views African Americans as savages. And what all these white spokespeople for the black communities don’t understand is that this blowback, this violence, this destruction and death, is largely not going to be borne by the white community, so they are making no offer of sacrifice. The people affected by this are disproportionately black and minority communities. The jobs lost, the business destroyed that serve the community, and, yes, the people murdered.

So while one may believe it is the ultimate sign of contrition to extend “shut up and listen” to the violence, notice that their words are much more enabling than the words of so many black leaders, among them President Obama. And if the backdrop of everything is the inherent power and privilege of white America, what better way to facilitate further death and destruction than to have the white community “understand” the violence, and see more black homes destroyed, more black businesses going under, more black communities suffering, and more black people dying.

For my experience, I don’t see it as a “give and take” situation. I’m not that insecure with myself or my opinions. I have decided to listen to what protesters are saying and trying to listen and internalize. Not judge or point fingers. I can’t understand their experience. I try my best to listen and ask questions.

Being able to draw lines and pick and choose positions based on the situation is a privilege, one those on the street are telling me they don’t have.

JFC is white male dominated. I’m hearing a lot of opinions, and not much talk about the real issue: white men’s unwillingness to be wrong and learning from it.


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[Ron Mexico]

No reasonable person wants violence or destruction and definitely not death. I haven't seen people here condoning it. But some, myself included, have pointed that maybe there is more to some of it and maybe we should look at each situation more carefully before making judgements as a whole. Many have also pointed out that getting to this point is the bigger issue. People are condoning the protests because they went violent but not society for oppressing for so long, not police for racist violence that is beyond just a few bad cops, and not cops who are antagonizing protestors into violence. If you're saddened about the terrible things happening during the protests where was your grief the rest of your life when much worse atrocities were happening to your neighbors and friends?

One thing is for sure it should never have come to any of this. The fact that even peaceful protests are needing to happen is beyond terrible.

There are many examples of non peaceful protests leading to positive changes. I just hope this one does so we don't have to have anymore.

Yes, there are negative things people are doing on the protest side of things. But nothing in comparison to what's happening on the other side and it's not really close.

Could this protest have gone better? Definitely. Could it have been peaceful and made a difference? Maybe. Was it the protesters fault for all the violence? Definitely not. Where there ****** people on both sides that made things worse? Yes.

I wish no violence happened. I wish no violence will happen going forward.

What we can all do is try to make sure we don't let this happen again. It's beyond time to make a change that lasts.

 

[Ron Mexico]

The fact is more or less every white person is racist in America. It's part of our culture and it's human nature. Racist doesn't mean you are a bad person it simply means you make judgments based on race. To me there's 3 types of people. People who see it and try to correct it and be better, people who are ignorant to it for various reasons, and the terrible people who embrace it and think it's okay. I would like to think the last one is a small minority and that lots are in the other two groups. I hope everyone can move to seeing it and trying to correct it.

 

[infection]

For my experience, I don’t see it as a “give and take” situation. I’m not that insecure with myself or my opinions. I have decided to listen to what protesters are saying and trying to listen and internalize. Not judge or point fingers. I can’t understand their experience. I try my best to listen and ask questions.

Do you see many people judging and pointing fingers at protestors? Or rioters/looters? Or are they the same? Is privilege the only explanation for being able to make such a distinction? Does not making a distinction have a cost? And, if so, who largely bears the burden of that cost?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Bottom line is police need to be heavily defunded.

 

[infection]

Bottom line is police need to be heavily defunded.

So you’re a small government kind of guy?

 

[Ron Mexico]

So you’re a small government kind of guy?

If only there was still a party that believed in that...

 

[Red]

 

[infection]

If only there was still a party that believed in that...

I wish, too. The best we can get is someone who nobody wants to work with, thus preventing the national-scale righting reflex that exacerbates so many of our problems through intervention, but satiates our appetite for feeling like we've "done something." In another thread HH mentioned Dennis Rodman running for president, and I was serious about saying I'd vote for that.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Do you see many people judging and pointing fingers at protestors? Or rioters/looters? Or are they the same? Is privilege the only explanation for being able to make such a distinction? Does not making a distinction have a cost? And, if so, who largely bears the burden of that cost?

Yer asking the wrong guy.


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[BabyPeterzz]

Bottom line is police need to be heavily defunded.

I would argue otherwise. I think we should pay to attract talent, not under pay for losers. Let’s take this job seriously and give them the resources they need to perform the job we’re asking them to do.

More training, screening, counseling, specialization, and implementation.


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[infection]

Yer asking the wrong guy.


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Well, you were responding to my post. Follow up clarity on whether you’re seeing people condemning protestors, as your response to me implied, seemed like a fair question to ask the person making the statement.

 

[LogGrad98]

Unfortunately, until a majority of white people acknowledge racism, better understand its cost to society, and want it to end, it will likely not end. I wish that wasn't the way it is going to have to happen, but it is. It is tough to find the line between being an ally and being in the way, but I hope we all try to find that balance.

I still do not understand how after millenia of existence, human beings are still collectively awful and cannot figure out how to function as a society of equals.

It's just that some people are more equal than others.