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Tough Day To Be In Law Enforcement

So instead of calling the cops and having the situation escalate to an execution... why don’t we reform the police? That way, Wendy’s could’ve called a number and requested a peace officer/de-escalation officer. That officer could’ve checked on him, asked him if he needed medical attention, and gotten him an uber. Situation resolved.

Just because we’ve always done policing in a particular (violent) way, doesn’t mean we always should. Time to reimagine law enforcement, bring it into the 21st century.

Side note: just saw the video. ridiculous that They shot him over that. Where’s he going to go? You have his car. You probably have his wallet and cellphone. You have his bag of food (so he’s obviously hungry). What’s he going to do? Time to stop worshipping this profession of cavemen and time for some innovation!
No wonder why stuff is burning. Years of frustration is finally boiling over.
 
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BabyPeterzz said:
Remember Occupy Wall Street? Yeah man, this is a statement. It’s not sustainable.


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I honestly don't know what you are saying? Yes, I remember OWS. That was nowhere near the same militant level as what is going in in Seattle.
 
Red said:
He pointed the taser, which he had ripped out of the cop’s hand. The police chief resigned. A taser is not usually fatal, and I believe the cop was outside its range anyway. He had fallen asleep in the drive through lane at the Wendy’s...

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Imo fighting off police, taking a weapon from them, running around with it out among both police and the general public, aiming said weapon (dgaf what it is unless it's a water gun), and firing it warrants use of lethal force to contain the assailant. Ok so let's say the cop, in the heat of the moment after a guy took a weapon from him, was fully clear headed enough to think "hey it's just my taser, we need to wait this out", then the guy, obviously excited and worked up after fighting with the police, turns on someone leaving the Wendy's or getting in their car or whatever and shoots then with a taser. People have died from tasers, they are anything but pleasant and peaceful. So this person they shot dies or otherwise suffers grave injuries (falls down, hits their head, breaks an arm, whatever). Then the cops are maligned for not taking swift enough action. Imo this situation warrants swift and decisive action to protect the general public.

I know the next argument is they should have never had the guy on the ground in the first place. I have read about 4 accounts of this, 3 of which noted that the guy was intoxicated and not following instructions and immediately started fighting when they tried to take him into custody. It's not some dad with his 2 kids randomly falling sleep in a drive through.

To me this is the problem we will have for a while. Damned if they to, damned if they don't. Higher risk to the general public. Cops second guessing themselves and their training causing even more risk. Yes we need change. Burning down a private business to protest cops taking reasonable action won't do it. It will just turn the voting public against the whole thing. That exactly the kind of rallying cry trumpers need and want.

This situation at the Wendy's is a cluster **** of epic proportions.

And it's going to get worse, imo.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Imo fighting off police, taking a weapon from them, running around with it out among both police and the general public, aiming said weapon (dgaf what it is unless it's a water gun), and firing it warrants use of lethal force to contain the assailant. Ok so let's say the cop, in the heat of the moment after a guy took a weapon from him, was fully clear headed enough to think "hey it's just my taser, we need to wait this out", then the guy, obviously excited and worked up after fighting with the police, turns on someone leaving the Wendy's or getting in their car or whatever and shoots then with a taser. People have died from tasers, they are anything but pleasant and peaceful. So this person they shot dies or otherwise suffers grave injuries (falls down, hits their head, breaks an arm, whatever). Then the cops are maligned for not taking swift enough action. Imo this situation warrants swift and decisive action to protect the general public.

I know the next argument is they should have never had the guy on the ground in the first place. I have read about 4 accounts of this, 3 of which noted that the guy was intoxicated and not following instructions and immediately started fighting when they tried to take him into custody. It's not some dad with his 2 kids randomly falling sleep in a drive through.

To me this is the problem we will have for a while. Damned if they to, damned if they don't. Higher risk to the general public. Cops second guessing themselves and their training causing even more risk. Yes we need change. Burning down a private business to protest cops taking reasonable action won't do it. It will just turn the voting public against the whole thing. That exactly the kind of rallying cry trumpers need and want.

This situation at the Wendy's is a cluster **** of epic proportions.

And it's going to get worse, imo.
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Yeah, seemed like things were going pretty well until the guy went AWOL, stole a taser, and tried to start a fight. I hate hate hate hate cops killing obviously unarmed people, but if you are going to be so impossibly stupid I think you've got a it coming. It's almost like cops won't be in the right unless they get shot first, which is total bull ****.
 
Can we stop vicitmizing everyone? The lesson here is don’t grab a ****ing law enforcement officer’s taser and fire it at him. Sorry but that’s ****ing dumb. I’m sure he was a great kid though and was just about to turn his life around.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Imo fighting off police, taking a weapon from them, running around with it out among both police and the general public, aiming said weapon (dgaf what it is unless it's a water gun), and firing it warrants use of lethal force to contain the assailant. Ok so let's say the cop, in the heat of the moment after a guy took a weapon from him, was fully clear headed enough to think "hey it's just my taser, we need to wait this out", then the guy, obviously excited and worked up after fighting with the police, turns on someone leaving the Wendy's or getting in their car or whatever and shoots then with a taser. People have died from tasers, they are anything but pleasant and peaceful. So this person they shot dies or otherwise suffers grave injuries (falls down, hits their head, breaks an arm, whatever). Then the cops are maligned for not taking swift enough action. Imo this situation warrants swift and decisive action to protect the general public.

I know the next argument is they should have never had the guy on the ground in the first place. I have read about 4 accounts of this, 3 of which noted that the guy was intoxicated and not following instructions and immediately started fighting when they tried to take him into custody. It's not some dad with his 2 kids randomly falling sleep in a drive through.

To me this is the problem we will have for a while. Damned if they to, damned if they don't. Higher risk to the general public. Cops second guessing themselves and their training causing even more risk. Yes we need change. Burning down a private business to protest cops taking reasonable action won't do it. It will just turn the voting public against the whole thing. That exactly the kind of rallying cry trumpers need and want.

This situation at the Wendy's is a cluster **** of epic proportions.

And it's going to get worse, imo.
Click to expand...

To note, once a Taser has been fired like that it's not really armed any more, there was certainly no immediate threat of him using it on anyone else.
 
I just want to point out that @The Thriller said possible the dumbest thing in this thread and I've actually seen this on other news sites pushing the same dumb rhetoric. I assume he's just echoing and regurgitating this **** without thinking it over. So what is it I'm referencing then?
The Thriller said:
So instead of calling the cops and having the situation escalate to an execution... why don’t we reform the police? That way, Wendy’s could’ve called a number and requested a peace officer/de-escalation officer. That officer could’ve checked on him, asked him if he needed medical attention, and gotten him an uber. Situation resolved.
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Dear, mother Mary of Jesus, this beyond stupid to say.

Look, I'm all for having police reforms and better training aimed at de-escalating situations and confrontations. 100%. I don't think this guy needed to be killed over his dumb behavior, too. Although he did one of the most unreasonable and unthinkable things you could do as a human. Who steals a police taser gun from the police and then tries to shoot it at them on the dead run? An intoxicated or excessively impaired person is who - or mentally ill.

The part I have a problem with is you brushing under the fact that this guy was drunk/impaired and behind the wheel. I'm not sure if you've ever drank or drank enough to where you pass out? I'm 99% sure this guy was not taking a gawd damn nap in his car and passed out - luckily he was in park. I imagine it started out a lot like the Darren McFadden DUI video.


The fact that you think someone drunk driving should be given medical attention (I'm all for giving medical attention but to recommend this and nothing about being arrested is clown town) and then an Uber ride home is so ****ing bizarre and short sighted to me. Like, that's your solution to drunk driving when someone is passed out at the wheel because they thought it was a good idea to get Wendy's? You don't think he needed to be arrested? The guy was so blasted he passed out behind the wheel. Do you know how dangerous this is? What. the. actual. ****?!?! You can't be serious, are you?

I feel like I'm in La La Land seeing you and some media suggest he should have been called an Uber. I saw another article where it was blasting, shaming and blaming the Wendy's employee for calling the police like they did something wrong. Smh.
 
LogGrad98 said:
People have died from tasers, they are anything but pleasant and peaceful.
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Yes, I am aware of that, the reason I said they are usually not fatal, and did not say they are never fatal. Just wanted to clarify that point. It also did look like he discharged the taser once, before continuing to run away....

Edit: as someone pointed out last night, once the individual discharged that taser, the cop must have understood, though easily forgettable in the moment, that that taser could not be fired again, without being reloaded. The cops also had the individual’s car, which would allow them to know where he lived, unless the car was stolen, as far as I know not the case.

I do understand the remainder of your points, but think the individual did not have to be shot. I don’t see any reason to presume that individual was then going to go on a taser spree against innocent people at that point. He could not reload that taser on the run, and they knew he was not otherwise armed. They could have simply continued the chase. Of course, I was not there, in the moment, so it will always be easier for me to say that in hindsight. That said, that man did not have to be killed. One of the commentators last night, ex police commissioner of NY I think, explained the 3 conditions that must be met to justify lethal force, and he was of the opinion those conditions did not apply, based on the 2 videos he had seen. Sorry, off the top, I can’t recall those 3 conditions.
 
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Eminence said:
To note, once a Taser has been fired like that it's not really armed any more, there was certainly no immediate threat of him using it on anyone else.
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From what I saw one cop fired his taser and the taser the victim had was one he grabbed from a different cop that had not been fired.

Either way, I personally think this one was more justified than most.

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Archie Moses said:
Why did they burn down the Wendy's?

I'm just reading about all of this. Crazy.
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Well, you’d have to ask the people who set it afire. News reports indicated people were urging them not to attack that Wendy’s. A CNN crew was harassed, one of their cameras destroyed, when the establishment was being attacked, but before the fire started. I believe there are people who positively revel at the chance to experience the excitement of such wanton destruction. As well as people who are genuinely enraged at events, and justifiably so, that, in the moment, also give into that rage, and act this way. I saw all this, and remember things like this in the 1968 race riots. And other such events, though not violent and destructive to this extent, during anti-Vietnam War protests. There are people who revel in this. They are usually young. It is not a pretty look at a certain side of human nature.

It was not the fault of that Wendy’s franchise that the man was killed. It was a miserable thing to do to that establishment. And there are those who will do it in a heartbeat, without a second thought. They live for the chance to act this way. That does not negate or relegate to meaninglessness the peaceful protests, and those who would never act this way. But it will continue to happen every single time events that triggered last night occur.
 
Eminence said:
To note, once a Taser has been fired like that it's not really armed any more, there was certainly no immediate threat of him using it on anyone else.
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So right up until the point he fired it they can use some level of force to stop him. After he fired it - which is obvious how exactly at night in a chaotic situation with cops chasing the guy down and yelling at him the whole time? - anyway right up to that point they can use some level of force, but right at the second he fires it, then, THEN, they are expected to immediately be completely calm, start using calming words, hope to hell he doesn't somehow have another weapon, which they likely never got to ascertain before he broke loose, anyway use nice calming language, and then if they can't calm him down, what, just let him go? After all they have his car. Somehow they have perfect knowledge that this guy doesn't have another weapon, or at just let's just hope he doesn't, and after he showed perfect willingness to fire a weapon in public, won't use it if he does, and of course as long as he fired the taser there is no way he is a threat anymore. Hell why even worry about him at all anymore? Just let him run home, tow his car, and go on to the next one.

Man people are so so so naive when it comes to the nuance and threats in these situations. We know so much more than they do, sitting behind our keyboards, looking for our next source of outrage.

So what's next? Hey he fired all 6 rounds in that revolver, he didn't hit anyone that we immediately know of, time to back off and let him go. He can't be a threat anymore. Oh wait, it wasn't a revolver? It was a semi auto with a 15 round clip? Oops, my bad, but hey we de-escalated. It's not our fault he shot 3 bystanders that startled him, we were singing "I love you... You love me..." It's not like we could have done anything about it. We were just SURE his gun was empty. It's so easy to keep track of where all the gun shots are coming from and how many were fired while running after someone through traffic at night. I mean, duh.

I'll say it again, I think all of this will get way worse before it begins getting better. I sure hope the rioting community will begin to police itself when the police stop.
 
Red said:
Yes, I am aware of that, the reason I said they are usually not fatal, and did not say they are never fatal. Just wanted to clarify that point. It also did look like he discharged the taser once, before continuing to run away....

Edit: as someone pointed out last night, once the individual discharged that taser, the cop must have understood, though easily forgettable in the moment, that that taser could not be fired again, without being reloaded. The cops also had the individual’s car, which would allow them to know where he lived, unless the car was stolen, as far as I know not the case.

I do understand the remainder of your points, but think the individual did not have to be shot. I don’t see any reason to presume that individual was then going to go on a taser spree against innocent people at that point. He could not reload that taser on the run, and they knew he was not otherwise armed. They could have simply continued the chase. Of course, I was not there, in the moment, so it will always be easier for me to say that in hindsight. That said, that man did not have to be killed. One of the commentators last night, ex police commissioner of NY I think, explained the 3 conditions that must be met to justify lethal force, and he was of the opinion those conditions did not apply, based on the 2 videos he had seen. Sorry, off the top, I can’t recall those 3 conditions.
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You realize the police are literally under fire from every single angle right now, everywhere. They are dropping from their jobs, afraid for their safety, and unsure of what to expect in any situation they can imagine. If course that cop said that. You think he wants to risk a riot in his town, or his job, if he didn't?

Sorry red, normally I think you are pretty well-reasoned. I think you are not thinking through the nuance and wide-reaching ramifications here very clearly.

And that raises the other question, at what point do they "assume" the threat is over? And do we just allow people to literally assault the police and then...go home? Not far from a descent into chaos once we start doing that imo.

You know one statistic we don't have? How many situations like that one would have ended in that person killing or harming an incident because the cop was acting on his best information in a very difficult situation and trying to contain the situation according to his training and the assailant sadly was killed. Do you want to start compiling that statistic when we start letting people in those situations just walk away?
 
fishonjazz said:
From what I saw one cop fired his taser and the taser the victim had was one he grabbed from a different cop that had not been fired.

Either way, I personally think this one was more justified than most.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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Oh, he 100% fired it at the cop, I was saying he wouldn't be able to use it again on a civilian in the immediate like Log had implied.
 
LogGrad98 said:
So right up until the point he fired it they can use some level of force to stop him. After he fired it - which is obvious how exactly at night in a chaotic situation with cops chasing the guy down and yelling at him the whole time? - anyway right up to that point they can use some level of force, but right at the second he fires it, then, THEN, they are expected to immediately be completely calm, start using calming words, hope to hell he doesn't somehow have another weapon, which they likely never got to ascertain before he broke loose, anyway use nice calming language, and then if they can't calm him down, what, just let him go? After all they have his car. Somehow they have perfect knowledge that this guy doesn't have another weapon, or at just let's just hope he doesn't, and after he showed perfect willingness to fire a weapon in public, won't use it if he does, and of course as long as he fired the taser there is no way he is a threat anymore. Hell why even worry about him at all anymore? Just let him run home, tow his car, and go on to the next one.

Man people are so so so naive when it comes to the nuance and threats in these situations. We know so much more than they do, sitting behind our keyboards, looking for our next source of outrage.

So what's next? Hey he fired all 6 rounds in that revolver, he didn't hit anyone that we immediately know of, time to back off and let him go. He can't be a threat anymore. Oh wait, it wasn't a revolver? It was a semi auto with a 15 round clip? Oops, my bad, but hey we de-escalated. It's not our fault he shot 3 bystanders that startled him, we were singing "I love you... You love me..." It's not like we could have done anything about it. We were just SURE his gun was empty. It's so easy to keep track of where all the gun shots are coming from and how many were fired while running after someone through traffic at night. I mean, duh.

I'll say it again, I think all of this will get way worse before it begins getting better. I sure hope the rioting community will begin to police itself when the police stop.
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Not sure what you're up to this morning Log, but the over the top slippery slope stuff is just annoying..
 
Archie Moses said:
I still don't get it. What does that do though?
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I thought you were asking why the wendy's rather than why the fire.

As for why the fire, sometimes ****ing **** up makes you feel better. Gets your anger out

I have always enjoyed punching things when I'm angry. Always feel better after.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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