Trump is a loser... of money

[Red]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

“Trump has been bloviating about being worth $10 billion ever since he entered the 2016 presidential race, a figure that simply isn’t true. He’s worth a fraction of that amount, and the larger his indebtedness becomes, the more strain it puts on his assets. The Covid-19 pandemic has taken a particularly brutal toll on the sectors in which the Trump Organization operates — real estate, travel and leisure. If Trump is unable to meet his debt payments, he’s either going to have to sell assets or get bailed out by a friend with funds. Trump has never liked to sell anything, even when it’s hemorrhaging money. So if he’s tempted to save himself by getting a handout, that makes him a mark.

If Trump was still just a reality TV oddity, that wouldn’t be earthshaking. But he’s president, and the trade-offs someone like him would be willing to make to save his face and his wallet taint every public policy decision he makes – including issues around national security.”

 

[NAOS]

A couple of years ago, a NYT report claimed that Trump did in fact commit tax fraud in the 90’s.

Trump committed 'outright fraud' in 'dubious tax schemes,' according to a big, new investigation from The New York Times

Trump and his siblings in part "set up a sham corporation to disguise millions of dollars in gifts from their parents," according to the Times.

www.cnbc.com

Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes as He Reaped Riches From His Father (Published 2018)

The president has long sold himself as a self-made billionaire, but a Times investigation found that he received at least $413 million in today’s dollars from his father’s real estate empire, much of it through tax dodges in the 1990s.

www.nytimes.com

Pulitzer-Prize winning reporting

 

[Gameface]

I'll just say this for like the 6th time.

To me, this is not about Trump paying little in taxes. It is not about Trump cheating on his taxes. This is about Trump losing money over the last 20 years. This is about Trump taking personal loans to cover his losses to the amount of almost 1/2 a billion dollars and we don't know who holds that debt.

 

[Avery]

We need a flat tax. Simplify the code.

Everyone has cheated on taxes - your shirts donated to Goodwill are not worth $20 and answering ‘no’ that pesky old question of whether you purchased something outside of the state online are hallmarks.

The problem is that our tax code yields advantages like the ones Trump’s accountants took full advantage of. And his brazen behavior to lie about his wealth when it’s obvious that he’s more Schitt’s Creek then Dallas compounds these fact that he can’t be trusted.

 

[Red]

I was just thinking how when he falls, it may be one of those things where it happens very fast, like....finally, everybody sees the emperor has no clothes. This reveal, of the truth about his finances, has to be hugely embarrassing to his huge ego. This was revealed at a perfect time to make him feel and look like the emperor with no clothes in the debate. He can look really bad tomorrow night because of this.

 

[NAOS]

We need a flat tax. Simplify the code.

Everyone has cheated on taxes - your shirts donated to Goodwill are not worth $20 and answering ‘no’ that pesky old question of whether you purchased something outside of the state online are hallmarks.

The problem is that our tax code yields advantages like the ones Trump’s accountants took full advantage of. And his brazen behavior to lie about his wealth when it’s obvious that he’s more Schitt’s Creek then Dallas compounds these fact that he can’t be trusted.

Surprised to see you support a flat tax. I’d say we need an aggressive graduated tax scheme now more than ever.

 

[NAOS]

I was just thinking how when he falls, it may be one of those things where it happens very fast, like....finally, everybody sees the emperor has no clothes. This reveal, of the truth about his finances, has to be hugely embarrassing to his huge ego. This was revealed at a perfect time to make him feel and look like the emperor with no clothes in the debate. He can look really bad tomorrow night because of this.

Never underestimate the power of “fake news”

 

[Eminence]

We need a flat tax. Simplify the code.

Everyone has cheated on taxes - your shirts donated to Goodwill are not worth $20 and answering ‘no’ that pesky old question of whether you purchased something outside of the state online are hallmarks.

The problem is that our tax code yields advantages like the ones Trump’s accountants took full advantage of. And his brazen behavior to lie about his wealth when it’s obvious that he’s more Schitt’s Creek then Dallas compounds these fact that he can’t be trusted.

I think there are ways to simplify the code without having a flat tax.

Starting with the IRS sending out the bill instead of having each individual do it.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Just skimmed the article but it seemed like he didn't cheat, just took advantage of the BS tax rules that protect the rich right? Which sucks but is fair. Or did he really lie and cheat?

Exactly.... Not to mention it clear him of any Russian wrong doing.

 

[Avery]

I think there are ways to simplify the code without having a flat tax.

Starting with the IRS sending out the bill instead of having each individual do it.

Which would be fine. My whole point is that lean principles need to redraw tax law vs. a convoluted system of WTF Form 1040BBB.

 

[fishonjazz]

We need a flat tax. Simplify the code.

Everyone has cheated on taxes - your shirts donated to Goodwill are not worth $20 and answering ‘no’ that pesky old question of whether you purchased something outside of the state online are hallmarks.

The problem is that our tax code yields advantages like the ones Trump’s accountants took full advantage of. And his brazen behavior to lie about his wealth when it’s obvious that he’s more Schitt’s Creek then Dallas compounds these fact that he can’t be trusted.

I can honestly say I have never cheated on my taxes. Never itemized in my life. Standard deduction every year done on turbo tax

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[JazzGal]

I keep a list of everything I order out of state and keep meticulous track of taxes charged for the Use Tax. But I admit I don't know anyone else that does.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Avery]

I keep a list of everything I order out of state and keep meticulous track of taxes charged for the Use Tax. But I admit I don't know anyone else that does.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

Most websites now will always charge sales tax with the new laws that started last year with the Supreme Court ruling. Better for you as you don’t need to self-report or you will get double-dinged.

I used to itemize, but the new tax laws makes the standard deduction better.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think there are ways to simplify the code without having a flat tax.

Starting with the IRS sending out the bill instead of having each individual do it.

Flat tax simplifies nothing. Deductions are what complicated things... easy to say get rid of deductions for individuals but it’s impossible for businesses. Always makes me laugh when people say flat tax would simplify things... the rates aren’t the problem. Can’t tax businesses that on gross receipts alone... there will always be deductions there and that is where the time and complexity is.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Surprised to see you support a flat tax. I’d say we need an aggressive graduated tax scheme now more than ever.

I think a true flat tax (more likely a flat tax w low income exemption) on income would likely result in the government taking more money from the super rich while keeping the status quo for the rest of us, resulting in a better budget. Uncle Sam could look at the average effective tax rate for a band of income and extrapolate those #s at the flat tax rayes.

However, a true flat tax would remove many jobs for tax preparers, accountant, retirement plan experts (no more deductions for donations, retirement plan contributions, etc.).




With all the jobs that would be lost, and the lobbyists fighing to protect them, it will never happen. The IRC will get more complicated, and likely see a bump in income for top earners. They could also impose a alternative minimum gross earnings tax for those making over a certain $ threshold. Many states already have a gross receipts tax on businesses. Seems to fix most of the tax games. Again, get past the lobbyists and taxpayers...don't think it will ever happen.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think a true flat tax (more likely a flat tax w low income exemption) on income would likely result in the government taking more money from the super rich while keeping the status quo for the rest of us, resulting in a better budget. Uncle Sam could look at the average effective tax rate for a band of income and extrapolate those #s at the flat tax rayes.

However, a true flat tax would remove many jobs for tax preparers, accountant, retirement plan experts (no more deductions for donations, retirement plan contributions, etc.).




With all the jobs that would be lost, and the lobbyists fighing to protect them, it will never happen. The IRC will get more complicated, and likely see a bump in income for top earners. They could also impose a alternative minimum gross earnings tax for those making over a certain $ threshold. Many states already have a gross receipts tax on businesses. Seems to fix most of the tax games. Again, get past the lobbyists and taxpayers...don't think it will ever happen.

This is completely dumb. There will always be deductible expenses for businesses. There are some gross receipts fees but they are super low and apply to only certain types of entities. How you going to tax gross receipts like every business has the same margin.

Accountants spend like no time on rates and brackets... it’s all about deductions. You can remove personal deductions and exemptions but that will hurt the average Joe more than guys like trump. Business owners are the wealthiest people and they get to deduct business expenses. Flat tax would do nothing to hurt them. Honestly it would provide incentive for them to hoard profits rather than invest in equipment, buildings, expansion because they can write off those expenses... take away the punitive upper tax rates
likely just hoard the cash.

We have an alternative minimum tax... it doesn’t work and hammers the middle class.

We need tax reform but it’s so much more complicated than a flat tax.

 

[Red]

Never underestimate the power of “fake news”

As one of the commentators, I’m pretty sure David From, said yesterday, he has lost control of the narrative. This is a body blow. It won’t change his core. They are in a cult, and he hates the same people they hate, and that’s all that matters to them, but he can lie about this report’s findings till those proverbial cows come home, how he responds tonight, even if it is hard to imagine any undecided exist at this point, if he flubs his demeanor, his responses, that will hurt. He’s cornered by this, and all the implications that spin off from it. To some degree, he loses some control of the narrative with this report.

 

[Red]

Never underestimate the power of “fake news”

 

[TheGoldStandard]

This is completely dumb. There will always be deductible expenses for businesses. There are some gross receipts fees but they are super low and apply to only certain types of entities. How you going to tax gross receipts like every business has the same margin.

Accountants spend like no time on rates and brackets... it’s all about deductions. You can remove personal deductions and exemptions but that will hurt the average Joe more than guys like trump. Business owners are the wealthiest people and they get to deduct business expenses. Flat tax would do nothing to hurt them. Honestly it would provide incentive for them to hoard profits rather than invest in equipment, buildings, expansion because they can write off those expenses... take away the punitive upper tax rates
likely just hoard the cash.

We have an alternative minimum tax... it doesn’t work and hammers the middle class.

We need tax reform but it’s so much more complicated than a flat tax.

A true flat tax is just that, deductions allow you to game the system. Many states have a gross receipts tax, including my state of Washington (and no income tax on individuals). As a business owner I pay 1.5% of my gross income (service industry). The tax is different for different industries. It ensures the state gets paid. Works quite well compared to other states that allow a lot of games with deductions. And yes, I am quite aware of the AMT. I was suggesting something only for top tier earners, not the AMT we have now (assuming deductions still exist).

And a true flat tax would have no deductions. That would never happen, which is why I alluded to a modified tax system.

I'd prefer a tiered income tax with no deductions (although it would end my career). The government could extrapolate what a tier of income normally pays with average deductions. So if a $280k-$350k earner pays on average an effective federal tax rate of 20% (estimate), then that is your tax rate. No deductions, no games. Make a tier of no deduction rates for everyone except low earners. Simplifies the system, and removes deductions. And it would also make people in states with high income taxes get motivated to lower their taxes. As it is now, with state deductions, states with high taxes keep more money at the expense of the federal government.

If business tax reform isn't included in the mix, then rich people will always find ways to game the system. And if the system allows for it, they should. Take advantage of the rules for the game board in front of you.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

A true flat tax is just that, deductions allow you to game the system. Many states have a gross receipts tax, including my state of Washington (and no income tax on individuals). As a business owner I pay 1.5% of my gross income (service industry). The tax is different for different industries. It ensures the state gets paid. Works quite well compared to other states that allow a lot of games with deductions. And yes, I am quite aware of the AMT. I was suggesting something only for top tier earners, not the AMT we have now (assuming deductions still exist).

And a true flat tax would have no deductions. That would never happen, which is why I alluded to a modified tax system.

I'd prefer a tiered income tax with no deductions (although it would end my career). The government could extrapolate what a tier of income normally pays with average deductions. So if a $280k-$350k earner pays on average an effective federal tax rate of 20% (estimate), then that is your tax rate. No deductions, no games. Make a tier of no deduction rates for everyone except low earners. Simplifies the system, and removes deductions. And it would also make people in states with high income taxes get motivated to lower their taxes. As it is now, with state deductions, states with high taxes keep more money at the expense of the federal government.

If business tax reform isn't included in the mix, then rich people will always find ways to game the system. And if the system allows for it, they should. Take advantage of the rules for the game board in front of you.

A true flat tax can't work in business unless it is a super nominal fee... like the1.5%. Even if you had a ton of different industry designations to charge different rates it would allow complexity and would have so many unintended consequences.

The reason trump pays so little has nothing to do with a flat tax or graduated rates etc. If you want to get rid of personal exemptions/deductions like you suggest that won't change anything for the rich.

Most of the ways the rich "game the system" are by reinvesting, financing, and using non-cash deductions like accelerated depreciation. Amazon gets a lot of credits for R&D and reinvests a ton of money in the business for expansion.

Most of the rich people I know pay a ton of tax. They plan and get some of the edge off of it, but can't avoid unless you are doing something illegal. There are things we can change without throwing out the whole tax code. Changing tiers and throwing out some fairy tale flat tax system won't change things. Reduce non-cash items like depreciation, disallow investment interest, get rid of wealth transfer vehicles that avoid tax, add on a federal property tax for commercial properties, get rid of capital gains and qualified dividend rates, add in consumer taxes for luxuries...

There aren't an easy or quick fixes that can overhaul the entire income tax system.