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Jo Jorgensen 2020 - First Female President

AlaskanAssassin

AlaskanAssassin

Well-Known Member
If you are still trying to decide between two old white guys. If you are still trying to pick between a racist and a guy with dementia. If you are still trying to pick between two men who have a history of sexual assault and mistreatment of women. If you are still trying to pick between a guy who doesn't know when to shut up, and a guy that can barely get a sentence out. If you are still trying to pick between two people clearly not fit to be president............

Meet Jo Jorgensen (L)

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Highlights:

-Strong proponent of criminal justice reform. Believes we incarcerate far too many citizens.
-Opposes the war on drugs
-Supports demilitarizing police
-Favors withdrawing troops from foreign wars
-Promises to stop raising the debt ceiling and will veto spending that leads to a deficit
-Supports the option to opt out of Social Security
-She would immediately stop construction on the border wall

Best of all, she is not Donald Trump or Joe Biden, the worst two options of the two major parties I've seen in my lifetime.

I'm With Her
 
One Brow said:
What happens to seniors whose life saving get wiped out through some misfortune?
Click to expand...

Two Part Answer:

1- The same thing that happened to seniors who didn't have retirement income/savings before 1940. (when regular social security benefits commenced).
They seek help from family (most commonly move in with them), friends, and charity.

2- A better question to ask is 'What is going to happen to seniors living solely off of social security when the US faces hyper-inflation as a result of growing deficits and money printing?' An inevitability that will likely be triggered once the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/07/the...r-could-lose-its-special-global-standing.html
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Two Part Answer:

1- The same thing that happened to seniors who didn't have retirement income/savings before 1940. (when regular social security benefits commenced).
They seek help from family (most commonly move in with them), friends, and charity.

2- A better question to ask is 'What is going to happen to seniors living solely off of social security when the US faces hyper-inflation as a result of growing deficits and money printing?' An inevitability that will likely be triggered once the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/07/the...r-could-lose-its-special-global-standing.html
Click to expand...
These people don't understand Charity or deficits.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Two Part Answer:

1- The same thing that happened to seniors who didn't have retirement income/savings before 1940. (when regular social security benefits commenced).
They seek help from family (most commonly move in with them), friends, and charity.
Click to expand...

For those without family or friends, there's always just dying off. Much like we have forgotten just how bad polio and measles really were, we have forgotten what senior poverty really means.

AlaskanAssassin said:
2- A better question to ask is 'What is going to happen to seniors living solely off of social security when the US faces hyper-inflation as a result of growing deficits and money printing?' An inevitability that will likely be triggered once the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/07/the...r-could-lose-its-special-global-standing.html
Click to expand...

Other countries seems to be managing avoiding senior poverty without deficits and excessive money printing. We'll likely find a way as well.
 
One Brow said:
Other countries seems to be managing avoiding senior poverty without deficits and excessive money printing. We'll likely find a way as well.
Click to expand...

We should copy of their papers.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
One Brow said:
For those without family or friends, there's always just dying off. Much like we have forgotten just how bad polio and measles really were, we have forgotten what senior poverty really means.
Click to expand...
Was there massive elderly homelessness and poverty issues pre-1940? That's a serious question. If there was, I haven't read much about it. Also, remember that this would be elective. No one would be forced off of Social Security if they want to go that route. I think the amount of people that would elect to opt out (small %) and don't have family to rely on would be an extremely small percentage of people, all of which could be supported by private, voluntary charities.

One Brow said:
Other countries seems to be managing avoiding senior poverty without deficits and excessive money printing. We'll likely find a way as well.
Click to expand...

I have a hard time seeing how we will find a way. We continue to spend more than we tax, and as a country, consume more than we produce. No politician (aside from a few) seem to genuinely care about the deficit/national debt. They think we can live in this fantasy land bubble economy forever.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Was there massive elderly homelessness and poverty issues pre-1940? That's a serious question. If there was, I haven't read much about it. Also, remember that this would be elective. No one would be forced off of Social Security if they want to go that route. I think the amount of people that would elect to opt out (small %) and don't have family to rely on would be an extremely small percentage of people, all of which could be supported by private, voluntary charities.



I have a hard time seeing how we will find a way. We continue to spend more than we tax, and as a country, consume more than we produce. No politician (aside from a few) seem to genuinely care about the deficit/national debt. They think we can live in this fantasy land bubble economy forever.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of people will happily opt out of paying another tax. Especially young people who aren't faced with any existential dread yet. And then the system will collapse for those who stay opted in.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Was there massive elderly homelessness and poverty issues pre-1940? That's a serious question. If there was, I haven't read much about it. Also, remember that this would be elective. No one would be forced off of Social Security if they want to go that route. I think the amount of people that would elect to opt out (small %) and don't have family to rely on would be an extremely small percentage of people, all of which could be supported by private, voluntary charities.

I have a hard time seeing how we will find a way. We continue to spend more than we tax, and as a country, consume more than we produce. No politician (aside from a few) seem to genuinely care about the deficit/national debt. They think we can live in this fantasy land bubble economy forever.
Click to expand...

www.aarp.org

How Older Americans Got By Before Social Security

Pensions, annuities, savings accounts and mattresses were among options of what to do with your money before the existence of social security.
www.aarp.org www.aarp.org

I don't know enough about acceptabble debt levels to make a comment on ours, but if @idestroyedthetoilet has an opinion, I'll listen carefully to it. In the past, he has dismissed such concerns.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I think a lot of people will happily opt out of paying another tax. Especially young people who aren't faced with any existential dread yet. And then the system will collapse for those who stay opted in.
Click to expand...

I think this exactly proves my point. You're basically describing a pyramid scheme.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
I think this exactly proves my point. You're basically describing a pyramid scheme.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, but to be fair it's upside down because it's been raided so many times in the past and not managed well at all. Originally the system was decent, we've made it the ****-show it is today. And now if we kill it we might as well take the Viking way out and start throwing people off cliffs because that will be the end effect anyway for the many many people who rely on it.
 
One Brow said:
I don't know enough about acceptabble debt levels to make a comment on ours, but if @idestroyedthetoilet has an opinion, I'll listen carefully to it. In the past, he has dismissed such concerns.
Click to expand...

Well, our annual GDP is about 20T, and our Federal debt is about 23T. So if everyone in this country worked as normal, and gave everything we produced/earned for an entire year to the government, we still would not be out of debt. Nobody knows exactly how far we can push this. There are a few countries that have higher debt to gdp ratios than us, but its not that many. Japan is one that is over 200%. Can the US get to that level of debt, or push it even higher, without suffering a catastrophic depression?

Many modern economists have taken Keynesian theory and given it steroids. We no longer have the ability to normalize interest rates. Since the 2008 recession, we've only gotten rates back to about 2.5%.......and now we are back down to zero again. At some point in the future (who knows when) the market will force higher interest rates, and we are not going to be able to handle the interest on our debt. Maybe this is still a ways down the road (only because we are the worlds reserve currency, which isn't a guarantee forever).
 
One Brow said:
www.aarp.org

How Older Americans Got By Before Social Security

Pensions, annuities, savings accounts and mattresses were among options of what to do with your money before the existence of social security.
www.aarp.org www.aarp.org

I don't know enough about acceptabble debt levels to make a comment on ours, but if @idestroyedthetoilet has an opinion, I'll listen carefully to it. In the past, he has dismissed such concerns.
Click to expand...

What I probably said was deficits don't matter until they do. The wealth of a nation lies in its productive capacity, not in an accounting balance sheet. USA is a production powerhouse.

The concern is in the Federal Reserve losing control of the bond market. I'd like a good explanation on the mechanisms of how that could actually happen. I think it's obvious there is a limit to debt load, but we're talking more of creating moral hazard here IMO, disincentive to work.

A concern to watch is extrrnal debt load. If "China will dump US dollarz!" comes to pass it means they exchange treasuries for cash, which would need to be spent on US goods or go to waste via inflation. The Fed might not be able to both buy all bonds and contrl inflation as buying bonds pulls down rates, which adds inflationary pressure (cheaper borrowing = more buying and higher home prices). Or, you could look at China dumping USD more rationally as a massive stimulus into the US labor market and a reversal of the trade deficit. We'd simply have to work our way out of the inflationary pressure. Higher wages, more overtime for manufacturing employees... Keep in mind the current scale of something like 1 trillion into just one year of a 20 trillion economy? 5% one time is not too much to manage IMO. Taxes from it would reverse debt and adding in all those extra treasuries essentially being extinguished debt held by the Fed and we'd be in a much stronger financial position.
 
Look at the Federal Reserve remittances to the US Treasury before and after 2008, and the national debt minus Fed held debt for both periods. People went crazy over QE and Obama era debt, but the US debt:GDP actually went down concidering the economy kept growing after the brief stall and our central bank financing all our excess spending.

WTS, their is a limit and the MMT folks seem loonie. Go talk to someone who has been working a gas station job full time through the CARES Act, making less working full time than just the extra federal unemployment benefit. Damn right theyre angry, and it wasn't right to do them dirty like that. A new stimulus bill should make the low wage workers whole!
 
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