NAOS
Well-Known Member
I see no likely scenario where he jumps Royce. They are complementary pieces anyway.
I think this board needs a full reboot of opinions on Royce.
Shaq
- Thread starter SoUjazzfan
- Start date
I think this board needs a full reboot of opinions on Royce.
The addition of Favors and Shaq should hopefully suck up all backup 4 (Niang) minutes.
I mean, it's hard to look at the numbers and make a great case for Royce, the argument for him exists in the context of team dynamics (that which the team lacks, and what he critically provides). So it is simultaneously true that Royce is really important to this team and that Royce is not particularly special.
I don't know how to get my point across without sounding like an *******. Shaq has game-changing skills (all the more if his shot is legit) and Royce keeps the main lineups from falling apart.
Here it is: I'm not knocking Royce (or Joe).
This is the sheet I use. I'll update it to include Shaq. Feel free to copy and play around with it yourself.
Rotation Builder if anyone is interested
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I’m just not seeing what you’re seeing. And I’d say that a lot of Royce’s apparent flaws are as likely to be flaws with the system.
Yeah, it's funny. Offense isn't a problem for him at all unless you're talking shooting, to where it's just questionable. I think he's suffering from the inverse of what Euros used to be stereotyped for. Euros were stereotyped for being good shooters, and assumed they were bad defenders (and other guys who aren't athletic like a Korver). Here you have a guy who's known for being a really good defender but not necessarily known for being a shooter so we just assume "ah yeah, he must suck on offense."
Meh...I think he’s still bad offensively outside of the shooting. He plays hyper and dribbles too much. He’s not really good enough at anything besides transition to warrant him doing it. I don’t think he’s good enough to take the ball away from others and he’s not an active cutter.
And let’s be real here about the shooting...it’s bad enough that it could prevent him from playing altogether. He shot 21% in college, 31% in the G-League, and 29% in the NBA from 3. Half of his makes last season came in a 2 game span...there’s not a good reason to take more stock in the 38% he shot in a small sample last season over his total body of work.
His career is so weird. Two great stints when he got playing time for teams who had already given up...but in the middle is a season where he had a regular role and didn’t look good enough to be an NBA player.
It doesn't seem to be loading.
I mean, he could certainly be more confident when putting up shots. I understand (and endorse) his role is to only shoot wide-open shots, but you can still see him thinking when he gets them and he still passes them up.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Earlier, you seemed to be harboring a pretty deep critique of Royce. This quoted post seems pretty vanilla as far as a basis for a critique.
I dunno, man. Royce does a lot, and is asked to do a lot. He’s a major stabilizing piece... and now maybe he won’t have to stabilize the defense from 1-4 depending on the matchup and can focus more on what he does best.
I'm really good at Excel and could try to put something together next week. What format would be easiest for you to use? Something like Dan Clayton's version, or something else?
It did for me.
@infection - Since @KqWIN already posted something, maybe try his out first. But if you have a vision for something easier let me know and I can probably throw it together.
Handlogten's Heros
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He gets to the rim and can provide some ball handling when need be. Not saying he’s going to be some amazing creator but if the shooting is good enough 30-35% from three... then he’s average on offense. I doubt he’ll be so bad that he gets ignored altogether out there... even if they sag off of him he can attack close outs when they recover. I just think some are making his offense sound like Bruce Bowen without a jump shot and he ain’t that.
I think he's pretty bad outside of the shooting. He's like a worse Exum on offense. Sure, he can get to the rim, but he's not great at finishing, not a great passer, and has no in between game. The implication that he'd be average with 30-35% from 3 is a huge for me. There's a huge difference between 30% and 35% to begin with, but 35% is still below average and his game outside of shooting is well below average. Mudiay, for example, is significantly better in the other areas besides 3 point shooting and I would not call him average on offense.
His shooting is one of the worst in the league at his position. I'd be surprised if he's much different than he's been his entire college, G-League, and NBA career. Making 16/42 last season doesn't override a whole track record of bad shooting for me.
Handlogten's Heros
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He shot 38% from 3 and had a TS percentage of 56% which is league average... if those percentages hold up he will be close to league average. His scoring volume and assist volume are pretty average... like I'm not really super concerned with your definition of average... I'm more concerned with what average really is.
The fact that he isn't going to score in the midrange is not a bad thing at all imo. You don't want role players shooting midrange shots... He gets over half his attempts at the rim which is really damn good... the fact that he finishes at a 58% clip isn't perfect... but I'll trade Shaq attempts at the rim at 58% over your Mudiay midrangers at 41% because of math.
If the offense isn't average then he's still worth 15 minutes a night because of what he can do defensively and chasing down loose balls. He's a do **** player and we had none of those last year and it showed.