Are the Jazz going to trade Rudy?

[Handlogten's Heros]

I remember when people talked **** about Deron because he was passionate on the court and wanted to win. People thought he was turning into a cancer and wanted him gone cause diva bitch players like AK47 were not pulling their weight and cried about it.

I'm one of the few that is pro-Deron... then and now. I think he was prickly and that he cared about winning... I think he ran into a coach that was too old school and too set in his ways and it caused friction. Now was DWill a good leader... nah.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Pay attention here cause this part is important: He can't catch passes from his teammates on a consistent enough basis to demand the ball! So then when he cries about it, yes he's full of himself and being a diva.

He needs to look himself in the mirror and actually develop a set of skills offensively other than dunking and screening, this is year 8 after all.

Pay attention because this part is important: he simply does not have the talent or the body to do whatever it is you’re asking. What are you asking him to do, specifically, with regard to skills? You want him shooting jumpers? That’s stupid. You want him to play ogre ball? That **** has been dying for more than a decade for a reason, and unless you know of a way to change the fundamental composition of his musculoskeletal system, he is just not a dude that moves people around due to his very high center of gravity.

He simply does what he can, which is a ****ing lot. And this idea that he is incapable of catching a pass is straight garbage.

I say this knowing I’m the dude that needs to hear this the most: get a grip.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Pay attention here cause this part is important: He can't catch passes from his teammates on a consistent enough basis to demand the ball! So then when he cries about it, yes he's full of himself and being a diva.

He needs to look himself in the mirror and actually develop a set of skills offensively other than dunking and screening, this is year 8 after all.

He struggles to catch the ball at times. There were times though when we were shooting a **** ton of floaters and he was open. He wanted more involvement in part because he thought it would help... he also saw how ****** guys were defending and then they'd turn to him like "what the hell?".

Now the couple weeks were he stopped defending as well weren't great but that's his way of showing guys what he is doing for them because they weren't listening. He was wrong... so were the other guys... doesn't make him a diva to me. These guys are all young and figuring **** out. I think everyone learned.

This is common with defensive bigs... Kendrick Perkins used to get a post up to start both halves every game... it was ineffective but it was a nod to what he was doing for the other guys.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Human beings are subject to basic principles of human nature, more at 10.

 

[infection]

I'm one of the few that is pro-Deron... then and now. I think he was prickly and that he cared about winning... I think he ran into a coach that was too old school and too set in his ways and it caused friction. Now was DWill a good leader... nah.

I am pro-Deron. The Deron vs. Sloan was a false dichotomy that was meant to distract from the real issue: the catastrophic failures of a Greg/KOC regime.

 

[framer]

He struggles to catch the ball at times. There were times though when we were shooting a **** ton of floaters and he was open. He wanted more involvement in part because he thought it would help... he also saw how ****** guys were defending and then they'd turn to him like "what the hell?".

Now the couple weeks were he stopped defending as well weren't great but that's his way of showing guys what he is doing for them because they weren't listening. He was wrong... so were the other guys... doesn't make him a diva to me. These guys are all young and figuring **** out. I think everyone learned.

This is common with defensive bigs... Kendrick Perkins used to get a post up to start both halves every game... it was ineffective but it was a nod to what he was doing for the other guys.

Also, if you are going to pass to Rudy, go up high, not at his waist or his knees. If he has to dive down low to get the ball there is a good chance he will be stripped. It is leverage and science. Like what was said earlier, if you are going to throw a crap bail out pass to Rudy you are better off driving and throwing up a prayer that he can rebound.

Early Donovan passes to Gobert were terrible. He's gotten much better

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also, if you are going to pass to Rudy, go up high, not at his waist or his knees. If he has to dive down low to get the ball there is a good chance he will be stripped. It is leverage and science. Like what was said earlier, if you are going to throw a crap bail out pass to Rudy you are better off driving and throwing up a prayer that he can rebound.

Early Donovan passes to Gobert were terrible. He's gotten much better

And this does make it tougher to throw him a pass so I sympathize with the ball handlers too. The pocket pass is going to have a lot of opportunity to get tipped on its way up to Rudy’s hands.

 

[LoPo]

LoPo wants us to go full OKC mode right now. I totally agree 3-4 years of serious contention and then we see what happens. Why start a rebuild 3-4 years earlier than you need to (especially when that rebuild will be severely handicapped).

Come on now. Trading Rudy for assets rather than overpaying while we still have Donovan is not going full OKC.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[David Hume]

I'm not sure if this link was already posted, but here is a Real GM article about Gobert that may be relevant to the discussion.

Thirty Futures: Utah Jazz

Rudy Gobert is a tough one. He demands praise, to the point of importunance. He's sensitive to the idea that he's only a defensive stopper.

basketball.realgm.com

 

[Elizah Huge]

Come on now. Trading Rudy for assets rather than overpaying while we still have Donovan is not going full OKC.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app

You’re right it’s absolutely worse than that. Donovan carries us to the 7th-8th seed for years then leaves because we’re strapped because of the books and can’t improve the team.

 

[LoPo]

You’re right it’s absolutely worse than that. Donovan carries us to the 7th-8th seed for years then leaves because we’re strapped because of the books and can’t improve the team.

I think Donovan is a generational talent. He is a franchise guy.

I also believe that Bojan, Favors, Royce, Clarkson, Joe and eventually Oni and Hughes are good NBA rotation players. Maybe Brantley and Udoka put it together as well. Yes, we need another "great" player with Don, but so much of the foundation is there. It would suck to lose Rudy, but I have faith that we would lure another great player someway somehow.

Losing Rudy doesn't mean we lose everything. People need to calm down.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think Donovan is a generational talent. He is a franchise guy.

I also believe that Bojan, Favors, Royce, Clarkson, Joe and eventually Oni and Hughes are good NBA rotation players. Maybe Brantley and Udoka put it together as well. Yes, we need another "great" player with Don, but so much of the foundation is there. It would suck to lose Rudy, but I have faith that we would lure another great player someway somehow.

Losing Rudy doesn't mean we lose everything. People need to calm down.

While people on this board do overrate Rudy i.e. Thee saying he is better than AD (lol), he is absolutely a main component in why we win games.

He covers up a lot of the problems we would have on defense without him.

Most importantly it is idiotic to let him go on the chance you think we could somehow lure another star. Again with what assets and what cap space?

 

[LoPo]

While people on this board do overrate Rudy i.e. Thee saying he is better than AD (lol), he is absolutely a main component in why we win games.

He covers up a lot of the problems we would have on defense without him.

Most importantly it is idiotic to let him go on the chance you think we could somehow lure another star. Again with what assets and what cap space?

Nobody has argued that. I know Rudy helps us win games.

I do believe that we have set up our entire system around him for better or worse. We seem to play only one way. So when he's out or off, we struggle. Much like a LeBron James team would struggle when he takes a night off. Everything is predicated on that player. I'm not saying Rudy is LeBron by any means, but you get my point hopefully.

I think we can be a playoff team without Rudy. We won't be as good, but I do believe some of our youth might become really good.

If we traded Rudy for John Collins, I think Collins could become that player. Yes, we would struggle defensively with that switch, but long term, I think we could be better than we are today. I'm not advocating for losing Rudy for nothing. I'm advocating for a trade if he wants anything near supermax.

 

[One Brow]

I think Donovan is a generational talent. He is a franchise guy.

Generational talents make All-NBA Teams within 3 years. Mitchell has not. He's very talented, and may make one or two in the future, but he's not there yet.

Losing Rudy doesn't mean we lose everything. People need to calm down.

Losing Rudy means we lose our best player, a multi-year All-NBA and DPOY. We would not be able to replace him with equivalent talent.

 

[Jazz4ever]

And this is the classic example of why team's without top 10 players have tiny little championship windows. Rudy at 35% of the cap is winning nothing championship wise.

 

[slc]

So would anyone trade Rudy and Conley for Harden?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And this is the classic example of why team's without top 10 players have tiny little championship windows. Rudy at 35% of the cap is winning nothing championship wise.

What if the other 65% of the cap goes to Luka and Lebron?

The question is not will Rudy win is a title if we keep him at 30 or 35% of the cap. The question is what else does that cap number buy and is that better than Rudy?

If Joe/Bojan/JC eat 40% of the cap is that a better or worse use cap?

Only a few teams get to win titles each decade. Would be nice to get in the mix but it’s hard. We have a chance to go to the conference finals... from there we need luck... Rudy leaving leaves us worse than that imo.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So would anyone trade Rudy and Conley for Harden?

Hell no... we have a primary ball handler and there is a diminishing return with him. I also just hate everything about him.

 

[Getting Traded]

Rudy definitely can catch passes but they have to be high, not bounce passes or below the waist.

 

[whatthe]

Niang throws the best lobs, by far...by the way!