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Lockout!!!

InGameStrategy said:
The reason that Garnett and others are supporting this holdout is that their high-school education is telling him that being greedy is better than the more profitable alternative of partnering with the existing wildly successful NBA organization at 50-50. Which is about as much as your education is telling you.
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....so you're saying Garnett and his band of cronies will be looking for work at McDonalds....based on their education level which was so eloquently on display when they rejected the owners 50/50 proposal?!!!
 
oldtimer said:
My take on the negotiations:

The owners are right that a 50-50 split is fair. First, stop saying the players are down from 57 it means nothing. The CBA expired and if the owners wanted to pay 57 they could have simply extended the old deal. The fact is the players aren't coming down from anything because there is no active CBA. It just as easy for the owners to start at 25% and say they come up 25%, it means nothing.
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....excellent observations! When looking at it from your standpoint....this is like a whole new ball game for the NBA,
at least when it comes to finances! It's like a store is going to open up....so they put out a sign or ad in the paper saying: "Help Wanted! We will pay you such and such for your services. If your not interested....look elsewhere for employment!" When I first heard that the owners were offerring the players a 50/50 split, I was sadden to no end as I thought this shutdown was about to end....since surely the players would agree to that! But they just don't see the big picture of who is in charge here and who is calling the shots and holding all the cards! What do you think of Dutches idea of the owners dropping the players percentage 1 point for each month this thing goes on? Don't know if it would work.....but I'd sure give it a try! These guys are so overpaid, it's not even funny.
 
InGameStrategy said:
It would be awesome to be a fly on the wall, and we can imagine how stubborn both sides were, especially given that the mediator was successful with the potentially equally tenacious NFL and NHL deals but got nowhere with the NBA billionaires and punk players.
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....I would rather have beers with some of these owners.....and get to hear what they REALLY think of paying these punks all this money and having to put up with the return product of unsightly and uncoachable players who think they have the whole world in there hands!
 
Bill Guerin to NBA players: It's not worth it

To all NBA players who stand unified against the godless owners, read these words of warning from a former NHL player about the reality of losing an entire season:
"It's not worth it. Get a deal done," former Dallas Stars forward Bill Guerin said during a phone call last week.
There was not a single NHL player during the Great Lockout of 2004-05 who was a bigger proponent of the union's fight than this man. No one believed in the cause more than Guerin, and to hear him admit this is a bit stunning.
"I learned a big lesson: It's not a partnership. It's their league, and you are going to play when they want," he said.

******

"We could have waited two years and they would have waited us out -- I would have given an extra 2 percent back to play that year," Guerin said. "When you are in the heat of battle, and you are fired up, you don't think what they are doing is right. But it's not about what is right or wrong -- it's their league. It's theirs. I feel, personally, I didn't like guys giving up a year of their career, for what? A few less bucks? Guys are making more money now than they ever have."
Much of what is taking place right now between the players and owners sounds and feels very similar to the early days of the NHL lockout in 2004. Stern has total autonomy. No owner is talking, which means Stern has solidarity and leverage.
"The only thing you can die in the battlefield for in something like this is guaranteed contracts; everything else is nickel-and-dime stuff and it's not worth it," Guerin said.
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https://www.star-telegram.com/2011/10/19/3457577/bill-guerin-to-nba-players-its.html#ixzz1bT4E5G8S
 
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Looks like the lockout will end shortly....according to this ESPN report....and it will be due to the NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) who will step in on behalf of the players and rule the owners lockout to be illegal and against the law! This is what the players were counting on and why they did not decertify their Union! However, there is still one trump card the owners are hoping for that could prevent this from happening. The NLRB and it's leaders/committee members all HATE hip hop....and are not too fond of jailhouse tats, either!.....which may effect there final decision!!!

https://espn.go.com/espn/commentary...laint-nba-players-best-chance-end-lockout-now
 
TheItinerantSon said:
It would be so easy to rebuild a pro basketball league using the college stadiums and stadiums in places like kansas city and seattle. It wouldnt be hard at all to find investors for the new league, investors who would be happy to take 43% of revenue (even if they calculated BRI differently). But it would never come to that, because if the players started to formulate a credible plan guys like buss and cuban would have no choice but to fold - lest their franchise values disintegrate.
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College stadiums? Unused arenas in KC and Seattle? Investors all over the place with hundreds of millions of dollars in capital to pony up for a team at the Hartford Civic Center? The NBA is not just some business you relocate to a Florida strip mall because of the tax breaks and cheaper rent. Just out of curiosity, how long do you think it will take to round up all these tycoons and consortiums who want to bring pro basketball to Birmingham? And once they have them, they'll have to work out a CBA, right? Then there's the TV contracts and corporate sponsorships all chiseling down prices. Don't forgot endless lawsuits unleashed upon the new league from the armies of lawyers at the owners' disposal. And those are just the highlights.

Could the players form their own league getting through all that? Sure. It could take years, but they have a chance of pulling it off. But is it worth it? A new NBA league isn't going to pull in the same dollars by a longshot. It could take a decade or more before they reach Shangri-La and there's no guarantee they'll get there. Decertification is the only viable option, it also runs an enormous risk of failure, and they don't even want to start down that road.
 
Is there a big chance right now that the lockout may last till the end of season? Because last meetings between two sides didnt go so well as far as i know
 
Jason Whitlock! I like this guy! Great sports writer! Here's some of his take on the NBA lockout! Good stuff!

"Gumbel is pandering to a choir that loves hearing that black people are always the victim of racism, a power imbalance and America’s refusal to recognize Jay-Z’s birthday as a national holiday."

"It’s easiest to see the break from traditional sports values in the NBA. The embrace of rebellious, hip-hop music culture, which is in direct opposition to the patriotism associated with sports, and the devastation of college basketball because of early entrants into the NBA put pro basketball players at odds with their fan base.

American sports fans love basketball. It is our most beautiful and graceful game. They don’t like or respect the participants. The fans don’t believe the players share their values. Fans care about the teams. The players don’t."

Oh, by the way....Whitlock is black.

https://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/selfish-players-are-wrecking-NBA-with-shortsighted-moves-022411
 
carolinajazz said:
Jason Whitlock! I like this guy! Great sports writer! Here's some of his take on the NBA lockout! Good stuff!

"Gumbel is pandering to a choir that loves hearing that black people are always the victim of racism, a power imbalance and America’s refusal to recognize Jay-Z’s birthday as a national holiday."

"It’s easiest to see the break from traditional sports values in the NBA. The embrace of rebellious, hip-hop music culture, which is in direct opposition to the patriotism associated with sports, and the devastation of college basketball because of early entrants into the NBA put pro basketball players at odds with their fan base.

American sports fans love basketball. It is our most beautiful and graceful game. They don’t like or respect the participants. The fans don’t believe the players share their values. Fans care about the teams. The players don’t."

Oh, by the way....Whitlock is black.

https://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/selfish-players-are-wrecking-NBA-with-shortsighted-moves-022411
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"In doing so — in destroying basketball in Cleveland, Utah and Denver — LeBron, Melo, Amar’e and Deron reinforced the perception among fans that teams don’t matter."

Not exactly. "Deron's Escape" is the best thing to happen to Utah in a while, given what they got in return. The foolish thing was to pay him a maximum of $18 million per year in the first place--in line with CP3 (also overpaid) but far higher than Steve Nash (<$12 million), Rajon Rondo ($10 million and rising) and other top guards (Derrick Rose <$7 million in rookie contract).

The Jazz's contract with Kirilenko is a great example of why it is justified to reduce salary maxes or durations, at least league-wide. Cue also Rashard Lewis, Joe Johnson, etc., etc., etc.

As for the NLRB ruling in favor of the union, they had better have some solid evidence. I don't know much about the NLRB, and I invite lawyers (calling Kicky!) to comment. But it seems that the NLRB actuates more in situation of witholding of information (e.g., documents) or obstructing the formation or operation of unions. The NBA doesn't seem to have done that here.
 
InGameStrategy said:
"In doing so — in destroying basketball in Cleveland, Utah and Denver — LeBron, Melo, Amar’e and Deron reinforced the perception among fans that teams don’t matter."

Not exactly. "Deron's Escape" is the best thing to happen to Utah in a while, given what they got in return. The foolish thing was to pay him a maximum of $18 million per year in the first place--in line with CP3 (also overpaid) but far higher than Steve Nash (<$12 million), Rajon Rondo ($10 million and rising) and other top guards (Derrick Rose <$7 million in rookie contract).

The Jazz's contract with Kirilenko is a great example of why it is justified to reduce salary maxes or durations, at least league-wide. Cue also Rashard Lewis, Joe Johnson, etc., etc., etc.

As for the NLRB ruling in favor of the union, they had better have some solid evidence. I don't know much about the NLRB, and I invite lawyers (calling Kicky!) to comment. But it seems that the NLRB actuates more in situation of witholding of information (e.g., documents) or obstructing the formation or operation of unions. The NBA doesn't seem to have done that here.
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I think that Utah proved to nba that all players are expandable. If Utah didnt do the trade move, i would agree with you that players reinforced that bad perception among fans. But i believe KOC made a pretty good move by shipping Deron and getting some good pieces in return and showing that they are not the boss.

But at the same time, i would overpay to Deron and Paul because they are the best two point guards in the league, while Nash is old, Rondo isnt still on their level, and im pretty sure Rose will be overpaid soon too.
 
I for one say let all these ego heads go make their own league. At least back in the day the huge egos of the league had some respect and understanding of the game - Jordan - unlike these clueless narcissist types - D Wade - we have today. Would bring some "classicness" and "essentialness" back to the game.
 
sepanol said:
I think that Utah proved to nba that all players are expandable.
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And if Jefferson has really been working out, he's proving that players are contractable #badumching . . .

But at the same time, i would overpay to Deron and Paul because they are the best two point guards in the league, while Nash is old, Rondo isnt still on their level, and im pretty sure Rose will be overpaid soon too.
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I agree that it would've been tough to negotiate with DW, especially given that CP3 signed first. If Utah had started trying to nickel-and-dime Deron for a a few million, Deron especially would've gotten into a prima-donna hissy fit about the team not respecting him and probably would've hinted much earlier that he was angling to go to a bigger market.

The bigger problem is that NOH set the price far too high for a top point guard anyway (after more sane owners--even Mark Cuban--weren't willing to bid up the cost of PG, instead preferring to shower their salary cap on big men and shooters), and the max contract let them do so. (Then again, Dallas ended up trading for an overpriced PG before their title.)

The right solution is to have a deal in which the max contracts protect the owners from themselves, because in any industry, some companies are bound to push the limit just to stay competitive. The NBA is no different. New Orleans had to start blowing up their team financially after Chrissy hogged the payroll. Kudos to Utah (and KOC especially) for dealing with an overpaid point guard (and an overpaid 5x5 simultaneously) in much more well-managed fashion.
 
carolinajazz said:
...another interesting take on the lockout......this guy says the issues are "deeper" and it has become "personal!" I've maintained all along that the lockout goes deeper than just money or even control! These owners are simply fed up with supporting the lifestyle of the hip-hop culture and it's pathetic fruitage....with exorbenate amounts of money beyond the ridiculous!

https://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/brandt-111021/failure-communicate
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paul-allen-yacht.jpg

That's Paul Allen's yacht. It's the fifth largest yacht not owned by a head of state. It sports 2 helicopters and 2 submarines for the times in life you need 2 helicopters and 2 submarines. (thanks wikipedia.)

Billionaires chuckle at the extravagances of NBA players. For that matter, they've been making people rich their whole lives. They could care less how the people they make rich spend their money...so long as those people keep making them richer.
 
billyshelby said:
View attachment 345

That's Paul Allen's yacht. It's the fifth largest yacht not owned by a head of state. It sports 2 helicopters and 2 submarines for the times in life you need 2 helicopters and 2 submarines. (thanks wikipedia.)

Billionaires chuckle at the extravagances of NBA players. For that matter, they've been making people rich their whole lives. They could care less how the people they make rich spend their money...so long as those people keep making them richer.
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But he is white and has no tattoos.
 
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