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Jazz Offseason Plan

homeytennis said:
If you look back the biggest FU DL made was two years ago. That was the year of Bradley's coming out party in the Summer Leagues. This was the summer signing of Ed Davis, Jeff Green, Stanton Kidd, William Howard and NWG and the jettisoning of Neto. Two players on that summer league team that were productive were Willie Reed and George King. If DL had just signed these two, kept Neto would we be worse off today? I think we all know the answer to that.
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I don't really see these as, "FU" moves, mostly just moves that didn't work out.
 
Injury aside, I don't think there's ever been a quieter environment about any recent rookie than Udoka. How is he doing? What's he working on? How is he developing?

Dude is never going to be an offensive powerhouse, but if he can guard out to the three effectively and provide better presence than Favors, I'll take it.
 
I really like how everyone acts like Thomas was always destined to fail, but pretty much everyone was at least a little bit intrigued by him when the deal happened and agreed that it was a move that we wouldnt know the outcome of until he had a full year with the team.

Props to HH because he was probably the most skeptical of anyone, but even he had moments of optimism regarding the deal.

Matt Thomas - Matty Ice

jazzfanz.com jazzfanz.com
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I really like how everyone acts like Thomas was always destined to fail, but pretty much everyone was at least a little bit intrigued by him when the deal happened and agreed that it was a move that we wouldnt know the outcome of until he had a full year with the team.

Props to HH because he was probably the most skeptical of anyone, but even he had moments of optimism regarding the deal.

Matt Thomas - Matty Ice

jazzfanz.com jazzfanz.com
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Without reading my comments… my thoughts were likely about what the next move was. Like there is some sort of master plan. Maybe JC gets sent packing for cap reasons or something. Looking back I think we thought we were getting JJ on the buyout market (there were rumors that didn’t make sense but they were out there). When they didn’t materialize we shifted to something that looks like JJ. It also could just be “we like this guy so we got him and will figure out the rest later” type of thing.

I have given up on trying to figure out the master plan with wonky Jazz moves… Tucker salary dump and Matt Thomas moves just kinda prove they do stuff sometimes that doesn’t make sense… don’t try and make it smart or over think it.
 
KqWIN said:
Long list of things the Jazz FO did wrong. But they also built a title favorite almost entirely from the margins. Gobert, Mitchell, O’Neale, Ingles….finding those guys are not little things. Those are big things.

People who minimize those things and chalk it up to luck aren’t much different than Locke slurping the FO no what. Just blindly pushing narratives one way or the other. The only real difference is that Locke is doing it from Hawaii which is paid for by the organization.
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And I agree.. that is the maddening thing. You got so many big things right... the detail work and small stuff should be the easier part. I don't call it luck, but sometimes when they mess up easy stuff it makes ya wonder.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Please don't confuse logic and "extreme cynicism". Is that the new Cy phrase/word of the day... Don't be daft. Here is a new one for you to look up... "Toxic Positivity".

When I see a spade I call it a spade.

Niang didn't cost a pick to bring in iirc. Niang had also played less than 100 nba minutes when we brought him in... he was also a over 2 years younger. Matt has had like 700 NBA minutes before coming over. He's much more established than Niang was. He was also still cutting weight and everyone knows that fat is potential in disguise. I doubt Thomas magically learns how to dribble or gets faster or figures out how to be bigger or how to be better at defense or figures out how to get his shot off faster so that guys can't just close hard to him and take away his only nba skill.

If he had come for free then great... give him a try. For a second and taking up a roster spot we needed for a real NBA player... nah.
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It’s particularly bad in light of the tax burden
White Chocolate said:
Matt Thomas couldn’t even get the ball off against bench players in garbage time. Dude was a complete waste of a 2nd round pick and he is not needed on the roster. It literally seemed like DL’s final I’m taking my ball and going home move.
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Ahem, his (Matty) Icing on the Cakk move.
 
Avery said:
Injury aside, I don't think there's ever been a quieter environment about any recent rookie than Udoka. How is he doing? What's he working on? How is he developing?

Dude is never going to be an offensive powerhouse, but if he can guard out to the three effectively and provide better presence than Favors, I'll take it.
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My issue with drafting him was never about him... it was the positional need and place where we picked him. I am mildly intrigued to see him. I was never intrigued to see TB... I just never got it at all. Udoka is huge and athletic. I think he can be a monster deterrent at the rim and decent lob catcher. He will need to be disciplined and figure out the rest of the game... but if you told me he was some version of Clint Capela in a few years I wouldn't be shocked.

Part of the reason to trade Favs imo is to see what we have. If he gets torched in space and can't figure out where he needs to be on offense and defense then I'd like to know that.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I really like how everyone acts like Thomas was always destined to fail, but pretty much everyone was at least a little bit intrigued by him when the deal happened and agreed that it was a move that we wouldnt know the outcome of until he had a full year with the team.

Props to HH because he was probably the most skeptical of anyone, but even he had moments of optimism regarding the deal.

Matt Thomas - Matty Ice

jazzfanz.com jazzfanz.com
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I don’t need to read my comments. I knew his shot was wet. I hadn’t fully come to terms with the tax implications at that time, though. When the deal is put in that light, it’s just plainly bad.
 
Like last year if they had signed Jamychal Green instead of Favs after drafting Udoka it would make some sense... or at least more sense. They want a guy who can play stretch 5 but also want a big 5 to bring along. Green can move to the 4 full time if Udoka is ready and would be a trade asset. I think you could have gotten him for 3/21-25 and ducked the tax.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
My issue with drafting him was never about him... it was the positional need and place where we picked him. I am mildly intrigued to see him. I was never intrigued to see TB... I just never got it at all. Udoka is huge and athletic. I think he can be a monster deterrent at the rim and decent lob catcher. He will need to be disciplined and figure out the rest of the game... but if you told me he was some version of Clint Capela in a few years I wouldn't be shocked.

Part of the reason to trade Favs imo is to see what we have. If he gets torched in space and can't figure out where he needs to be on offense and defense then I'd like to know that.
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Yep - I want to see what he can do this year as we start entering team options. Show us something - I don't want it to be like a TB/Exum situation where it's piecemeal for what feels like forever. Give the boy some minutes and he either does well or doesn't, but at least we know.
 
Avery said:
Yep - I want to see what he can do this year as we start entering team options. Show us something - I don't want it to be like a TB/Exum situation where it's piecemeal for what feels like forever. Give the boy some minutes and he either does well or doesn't, but at least we know.
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I also don't think he's a guy that needs to fill out or get more skilled. He needs to get some time with the big boys and see if he can hang. I think he needs the mental reps and see if he can learn. Quin will have to live with some mistakes but I think he can be adequate as a backup. If he can't do better than a guy we can get for the vet minimum then you decline the options going forward and move on.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
And I agree.. that is the maddening thing. You got so many big things right... the detail work and small stuff should be the easier part. I don't call it luck, but sometimes when they mess up easy stuff it makes ya wonder.
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It’s questionable if the Jazz got the big things right. Conley is probably the only move that exhausted significant assets. They just made a few small moves that had major impact.

I just find it crazy how much people stress about a move Matt Thomas compared to a move like drafting Rudy Gobert. we think the Jazz are terrible on the margins, how did they build a title favorite almost entirely from the margins? Just seems like people chalk up everything good to luck and everything bad to incompetence.

When I here that stuff, it comes across as the same to me as Locke acting like Favors contract was a good deal and dumping his contract would be even better. Equally as annoying and meaningless commentary.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I also don't think he's a guy that needs to fill out or get more skilled. He needs to get some time with the big boys and see if he can hang. I think he needs the mental reps and see if he can learn. Quin will have to live with some mistakes but I think he can be adequate as a backup. If he can't do better than a guy we can get for the vet minimum then you decline the options going forward and move on.
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He might become a marginally better FT shooter, maybe a bit more range out to ten feet, but he's not going to be much different than what he is today. Let the dude bully inside.
 
KqWIN said:
It’s questionable if the Jazz got the big things right. Conley is probably the only move that exhausted significant assets. They just made a few small moves that had major impact.

I just find it crazy how much people stress about a move Matt Thomas compared to a move like drafting Rudy Gobert. we think the Jazz are terrible on the margins, how did they build a title favorite almost entirely from the margins? Just seems like people chalk up everything good to luck and everything bad to incompetence.

When I here that stuff, it comes across as the same to me as Locke acting like Favors contract was a good deal and dumping his contract would be even better. Equally as annoying and meaningless commentary.
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Big, important, hard... however you want to describe those "things" they got them right. They got two all stars and good complementary pieces in various ways. The Conley deal always seemed like we paid 25% too much but it looks fine imo.

I discuss each deal as they happen... in 7 years I won't be talking about Matty Ice... just like I'm not discussing drafting Rudy.

My stance on the front office has been fairly consistent... I thought they were a B- type group... but local media made them out to be an A++ valedictorian... so any time you question a move you get the "lolz lik u knows beter".
 
Favors/30 to OKC for 36

Bogey/Ingles to GS for Wiggins/7

We then end up with Moody and Wieskamp. Who’s in?
 
Avery said:
He might become a marginally better FT shooter, maybe a bit more range out to ten feet, but he's not going to be much different than what he is today. Let the dude bully inside.
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Right... he ain't gotta go to the G league to shoot better FTs. He needs to make mistakes in the big league and see if he can correct them. He may get a little more trim... he may get a little more refined in the post.. but not like we are running post ups for the kid. Learn how to set good screens and roll hard.
 
LoPo said:
Good. Trade Conley instead of paying him regrettable amounts of money.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
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I mean he didn't really imply that at all... I think its more likely he's talking bogey and Ingles plus Favs gone... maybe JC but he is a known JC hater.
 
Avery said:
He might become a marginally better FT shooter, maybe a bit more range out to ten feet, but he's not going to be much different than what he is today. Let the dude bully inside.
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I'm not high on Dok as a rotation player, probably unfairly due to how bad our garbage time defense was with him on the court. I don't mind coming in to the season with him as the primary backup C to see what we have there, but we better have a good backup plan in mind if he is awful.
 
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