Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[fishonjazz]

Also Vando never cold cocked a teammate in practice. I bet his teammates like him better than Draymonds teammates like his punk ***.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Im fine with you saying dray has a significant playmaking advantage (though you have to admit that having Steph freaking curry helps in that) and BBIQ advantage. And defense too.

Vando has a significant rebounding advantage and significant scoring advantage on higher volume and much better efficiency though. Vando also has a significant potential/young age advantage and an extremely huge salary advantage. Also a significant energy advantage and a HUGE non douchebag advantage.

Give me Vando all day erry day.

But sometimes you need a douche bag... if he is on your team he is your douche bag. I would rather not have guys knocking teammates out doe.

I don't want Dray... I will take Vando too... I think Green's salary and fit wouldn't be as amazing if he isn't playing with Steph and Klay. He would work here but not on the same timeline.

I think Vando needs to be more effective on ball and he can be a super hyper PJ Tucker. As it stands I think he is a third big and honestly he's in a solid spot/role right now. He has had other good games but the game he had against NO was the first one that really made me think there might be a touch more to him.

 

[fishonjazz]

But sometimes you need a douche bag... if he is on your team he is your douche bag. I would rather not have guys knocking teammates out doe.

I don't want Dray... I will take Vando too... I think Green's salary and fit wouldn't be as amazing if he isn't playing with Steph and Klay. He would work here but not on the same timeline.

I think Vando needs to be more effective on ball and he can be a super hyper PJ Tucker. As it stands I think he is a third big and honestly he's in a solid spot/role right now. He has had other good games but the game he had against NO was the first one that really made me think there might be a touch more to him.

Agreed.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I'm not sure why we're comparing Vando to Green, I probably missed how that came to be.

The biggest problem with Vando currently is that he's not a good defender. It feels like he has the tools to be a good defender though, so hopefully that changes (he's been good the last two games).

The second biggest problem with Vando is that Hardy won't play him and Kessler together. If you want Kessler to get more minutes (I'm actually ok with Kessler's minutes for now), then you need to find a new home for Vando, or find a new coach.

I wouldn't rush in to anything yet. I think everything will get more clear as we move forward.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not sure why we're comparing Vando to Green, I probably missed how that came to be.

They are similar sized versatile high energy players who do a litte bit of everything on the court. One of them is better than the other for obvious reasons (has been in the league for 10 years and plays with possibly the best offensive player of all time and has been in the same system forever) but also a big douche and very expensive and getting old. The other is still learning the game while on a new team with new teammates and coaches and is extremely cheap and extremely young. So the hope is that Vando can develop into what draymond has become.
FWIW when draymond was 23 years old he averaged 1.9 assists per game. 6.2 points per game (41% from the field and 33% from deep). 5 rebounds per game. 1.2 steals (and again, he got to play with steph freaking curry his entire career which is a nice boost to anyone)
Vando at 23 years old averages 2.8 assist per game. 8.8 points per game (61% from the field and 41% from 3). 8.3 rebounds per game. 1.2 steals.

So it looks like Draymond improved from when he was 23 to when he was 32.
Maybe Vando can improve too. That is the hope (and its my expectation to be honest)

 

[hgb]

These stats dont reflect defense very well so I would bet that draymond would be the better defender.

To me, Draymond is one of the better defenders the league has seen the past decade. This is a pretty serious understatement IMHO. Green's defense is probably his number one strength (although, of course, his playmaking is great too).

 

[SoberasHotRod]

They are similar sized versatile high energy players who do a litte bit of everything on the court. One of them is better than the other for obvious reasons (has been in the league for 10 years and plays with possibly the best offensive player of all time and has been in the same system forever) but also a big douche and very expensive and getting old. The other is still learning the game while on a new team with new teammates and coaches and is extremely cheap and extremely young. So the hope is that Vando can develop into what draymond has become.
FWIW when draymond was 23 years old he averaged 1.9 assists per game. 6.2 points per game (41% from the field and 33% from deep). 5 rebounds per game. 1.2 steals (and again, he got to play with steph freaking curry his entire career which is a nice boost to anyone)
Vando at 23 years old averages 2.8 assist per game. 8.8 points per game (61% from the field and 41% from 3). 8.3 rebounds per game. 1.2 steals.

So it looks like Draymond improved from when he was 23 to when he was 32.
Maybe Vando can improve too. That is the hope (and its my expectation to be honest)

OK? Besides you, who else is comparing the two?

I just see them as very different players. I don't think of Green as a high energy guy, but as a high BBIQ guy.

 

[fishonjazz]

OK? Besides you, who else is comparing the two?

I just see them as very different players. I don't think of Green as a high energy guy, but as a high BBIQ guy.

Green isn't high energy now but he was when he was younger. Everyone slows down with age

His BBIQ wasn't that high at 23 years of age. He struggled to even get minutes at that age.

 

[fishonjazz]

To me, Draymond is one of the better defenders the league has seen the past decade. This is a pretty serious understatement IMHO. Green's defense is probably his number one strength (although, of course, his playmaking is great too).

I bet his defense wasn't so great at 23. It helps when you play on an amazing team with an MVP who is the face of the NBA too. Refs give you the benefit of the doubt more and let you get away with more grabbing and bumping. Especially after your reputation is solidified.
He definitely wasn't much of a playmaker at 23. Vando is better than Draymond at the same age there. And Vando doesn't have Steph to pass to and take all the defensive attention.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I'm rinsing my eyes here after reading that Vando/Draymond comparison. Just terrible.

I don't particularly like Dray's public persona (and that's putting it kindly) and he's getting old, but man... he's been the heart and soul of a great team for a long time. Fantastic ballhandler at his size, great passer, top tier BBIQ and one of the best 1-on-1 defenders in the entire league.

Vando... is a guy.

Vanderbilt can be useful when he's completely locked in, like we saw against NO, but that's very rare. For a guy who most people would probably describe as having "that dog in him", he really, really doesn't like contact. Not on defense, not on offense. He mostly floats, gets uncontested rebounds and and scores on little flip shots, open dunks and the (very) occasional corner 3. You think Draymond ever lets anyone jog through the lane without giving them a bump? Hell no.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Vando is getting paid 4.3M per year and Draymond is getting paid 25.8M per year. Pretty wild **** when you compare their stats and defensive impact.

 

[Eddie Zero]

I was going to give you a like but then you said you like Collins more than most. No intelligent basketball fan would like him. I’ve lost all respect for you as a fan and a person and idiot.

He already has imo.

he does not have a highly reliable 3 point shooting ability at all yet, despite the small sample size % of .171 of his shots were attempted from deep taking 29 total 3's so far this season. But it is priomising that he made 12 of them which is more than even attempted total in his previous 4 seasons. If he could take about 5 per game and average over 33% he would surpass DFS in Dallas who is a similar defender.
I was not comparing his shooting to Dre at all, I said Dre is a much better playmaker. Vander is developing a decent iq for making a good read and keeping the ball moving. He is nothing close to Dre as far as initiating an offense.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Vando is getting paid 4.3M per year and Draymond is getting paid 25.8M per year. Pretty wild **** when you compare their stats and defensive impact.

GS did the math and decided that having Draymond on the roster, for various reasons, is worth $25 million per year. Can't argue with that decision at all. That's how the NBA works.

His impact on that team goes far beyond his stats.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

GS did the math and decided that having Draymond on the roster, for various reasons, is worth $25 million per year. Can't argue with that decision at all. That's how the NBA works.

They also opted not to give him an extension. Dray's motivation seems to come and go. Before the season and before the fight I told a couple Warriors fans in my office he was going to be an issue because they won't extend him. When he isn't locked in he can be toxic and a liability. I am curious if this is the last dance for these Warriors or if they end up moving Green at some point.

 

[Elizah Huge]

GS did the math and decided that having Draymond on the roster, for various reasons, is worth $25 million per year. Can't argue with that decision at all. That's how the NBA works.

His impact on that team goes far beyond his stats.

I was more so showing that Vando is underpaid and on a extremely team friendly contract.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Report says Lakers are increasingly unlikely to trade Russ... If they wait for cap space next year to make their move and actually make a good one imma be so mad we gave them that space by taking THT for nothing.

Wild they gonna ride it out or make a smaller move with Bev/Nunn contracts. If they just put one pick in I don't really get it... the whole thing was you wanted a star now you only have one pick left to get a star. They just gonna kill a year of Lebron and AD I guess.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I was more so showing that Vando is underpaid and on a extremely team friendly contract.

Non-shooters only get paid in the NBA these days if they are elite at another premium skill - playmaking, defense, protecting the rim. And Vando isn't. (You'll notice I left out rebounding - it's not a premium skill in the modern NBA, teams don't pay for it if it's all you do.)

He needs to keep making those corner 3's on much higher volume if he wants to prove he's turned into a dependable shooter. That's the only way his next contract will exceed $10 milion per year.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Non-shooters only get paid in the NBA these days if they are elite at another premium skill - playmaking, defense, protecting the rim. And Vando isn't. (You'll notice I left out rebounding - it's not a premium skill in the modern NBA, teams don't pay for it if it's all you do.)

He needs to keep making those corner 3's on much higher volume if he wants to prove he's turned into a dependable shooter. That's the only way his next contract will exceed $10 milion per year.

You have zero idea what you’re talking about. Why exactly did Larry Nance get paid based on your reasoning? What about Kyle Anderson? Chris Boucher? What are those guys elite at?

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm rinsing my eyes here after reading that Vando/Draymond comparison. Just terrible.

I don't particularly like Dray's public persona (and that's putting it kindly) and he's getting old, but man... he's been the heart and soul of a great team for a long time. Fantastic ballhandler at his size, great passer, top tier BBIQ and one of the best 1-on-1 defenders in the entire league.

Vando... is a guy.

Vanderbilt can be useful when he's completely locked in, like we saw against NO, but that's very rare. For a guy who most people would probably describe as having "that dog in him", he really, really doesn't like contact. Not on defense, not on offense. He mostly floats, gets uncontested rebounds and and scores on little flip shots, open dunks and the (very) occasional corner 3. You think Draymond ever lets anyone jog through the lane without giving them a bump? Hell no.

Lol at saying vando mostly get uncontested rebounds. That is hilarious. He crashes the offensive glass extremely hard getting into a lot of contact.

As for the rest of the post you might as well just say that draymond is a vet and vando is young so they cant be compared. Go look at what draymond was doing at 23. Vando is definitely outplaying what draymond did at the same age and its not really that close. Every aspect is in vandos favor at the same age.
Everything you said anout draymond in that second paragraph wasnt being said about him at 23. When draymond was 23 he was just….. a guy who was recently drafted in the second round.


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[Elizah Huge]

Lol at saying vando mostly get uncontested rebounds. That is hilarious. He crashes the offensive glass extremely getting into a lot of contact.

As for the rest of the post you might as well just say that draymond is a vet and vando is young so they cant be compared. Go look at what draymond was doing at 23. Vando is definitely outplaying what draymond did at the same age and its not really that close. Every aspect is in vandos favor at the same age.
Everything you said anout draymond in that second paragraph wasnt being saud about him at 23. When draymond was 23 he was just a guy who was recently drafted in the second round.


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He obviously doesn’t watch games. Vando gets a ton of rebounds off of pure ****ing hustle.