Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

They have their issues but I just don't see them being willing to include their 2027/2029 1sts when they've been hell bent about keeping those picks since last summer. Especially not in a move that doesn't make them the favorite in the West. They were hesitant to include draft capital in a Kyrie Irving deal. I think the writing is on the wall for them, they know LeBron won't be there much longer and don't want to leverage future assets for a team that isn't a move away from contenting.

I am happy with 1 of those picks so long as it is unprotected. We have had our fun season. Now let's get real about the picks. A nice 8 - 28 finish for the picks! All close games too.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Oh man... I just cooked up the tankiest of tank trades ever... like the type of **** that would make Presti blush....

We make the Westbrook deal a three teamer and send Russ to Miami for Lowry and Duncan... they cleanse the cap and we get even more assets from them...

I don't like it cuz I'd like to start building a real team this summer and not a collection of contracts and players that just kinda make is work. Was just a thought.

 

[Elizah Huge]

We discussed so many Westbrook trades over the summer that I don’t really have the energy to go in depth about it much more. We should definitely look into it though.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

HH, There are 30 games left. It's not like we have tanked the whole season. The league is closely yoked. A 5 game losing streak is the difference between a top 20 pick and a top 8 pick right now. A 10 game losing streak fetches you a 35% chance of a top 3 pick. We can suffer 10 games and get that reward!!! Don't overthink it. You won't remember 10 games. You will remember the Kings losing for 16 years. This is a no brainer.

JC is great but has his flaws. Cash out. Change the chemistry. Test for 30. Jiggle the balls!

Bro... you are preaching to the choir. I just thought the quick turnaround next year is predicated on keeping JC/Lauri/Walker... didn't think a Mike/KO/Malik trade would make us bad enough to drop the 5 or so extra games we need to. JC on the other hand is a bigger hole to fill. I'm completely cool with 30 games of shenanigans and pain to give us a chance.

Fine... push the button.

 

[YoungJefe]

I am happy with 1 of those picks so long as it is unprotected. We have had our fun season. Now let's get real about the picks. A nice 8 - 28 finish for the picks! All close games too.

They're going to give up an unprotected first for a move that doesn't move the needle in terms of their championship aspirations this season and gives them significantly less flexibility this offseason? lol

 

[HeatCheck]

Thinking out loud a bit... I have thought we are too good to tank even with a trade of Malik/Vando... but I think trading JC to LA would leave a void that would send us down the standings.

I guess since I'm team tank I probably have to grit my teeth and do it. Then in FA we make a big offer to JC that LA has to match and stick it to them.

What a boss move if they can rent out JC to the Lakers for their "playoff run" and then re-sign him in FA. I'd definitely be interested in either Max Christie or Austin Reaves from the Lakers too.
With that said highly doubt JC would want to leave LA again if he's traded back there. LA county is home to the biggest concentrated population of Filipinos outside of Manila.

 

[YoungJefe]

I love how we're discussing moves for the Lakers playoff run when they're currently 12th in the West.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And you know how Silver was super anti-tank... do you think we hear a peep from him if we help the Lakers? Look at that totally corny ref apology soliloquy they wrote for Lebron the other night. We won't catch one ounce of flack.

 

[Udidthizz]

I love how we're discussing moves for the Lakers playoff run when they're currently 12th in the West.

They’re 3 games behind the nr. 4 seed.

 

[Korisfani]

HH, There are 30 games left. It's not like we have tanked the whole season. The league is closely yoked. A 5 game losing streak is the difference between a top 20 pick and a top 8 pick right now. A 10 game losing streak fetches you a 35% chance of a top 3 pick. We can suffer 10 games and get that reward!!! Don't overthink it. You won't remember 10 games. You will remember the Kings losing for 16 years. This is a no brainer.

Is there any logic behind this?

35 % chance at the top 3 is the 4 seed. That's currently the Hornets with 15 wins. IF the Jazz lose the next 10 games, they're 27-36. Meanwhile, the Hornets are probably 18-45 or 17-46.

The bottom 5 teams are unlikely to get a better record than the Jazz even if the Jazz go 0-29 from now on.

And going hell for leather for... the 6th or 7th pick? In what universe does that make sense? All the assets you're benching are losing value and Lauri is possibly thinking about a trade request for the summer if you give him three months of "knee soreness".

 

[YoungJefe]

Is there any logic behind this?

35 % chance at the top 3 is the 4 seed. That's currently the Hornets with 15 wins. IF the Jazz lose the next 10 games, they're 27-36. Meanwhile, the Hornets are probably 18-45 or 17-46.

The bottom 5 teams are unlikely to get a better record than the Jazz even if the Jazz go 0-29 from now on.

And going hell for leather for... the 6th or 7th pick? In what universe does that make sense? All the assets you're benching are losing value and Lauri is possibly thinking about a trade request for the summer if you give him three months of "knee soreness".

You give yourself a chance to get a top 3 pick which could be the difference between an All NBA level dude and an average starter. The Thunder have shut down SGA multiple times, he hasn't demanded out, lol.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Is there any logic behind this?

35 % chance at the top 3 is the 4 seed. That's currently the Hornets with 15 wins. IF the Jazz lose the next 10 games, they're 27-36. Meanwhile, the Hornets are probably 18-45 or 17-46.

The bottom 5 teams are unlikely to get a better record than the Jazz even if the Jazz go 0-29 from now on.

And going hell for leather for... the 6th or 7th pick? In what universe does that make sense? All the assets you're benching are losing value and Lauri is possibly thinking about a trade request for the summer if you give him three months of "knee soreness".

It’s based on pick odds not on where we would land in the standings. 6/7 pick is a whole lot more valuable than the 14-16 pick. There is a certain all star that was selected with the 7th pick once upon a time.

 

[Korisfani]

You give yourself a chance to get a top 3 pick which could be the difference between an All NBA level dude and an average starter. The Thunder have shut down SGA multiple times, he hasn't demanded out, lol.

It’s based on pick odds not on where we would land in the standings. 6/7 pick is a whole lot more valuable than the 14-16 pick. There is a certain all star that was selected with the 7th pick once upon a time.

I do understand how the lottery works...

But to have a 35 % chance at a top3 pick (2/3 chance it's not!), you have to have the 4th seed in the lottery. Getting the 4th seed is pretty much impossible, even going 0-29 the rest of the way. (And even though I think Silver is mostly full of hot air, if the Jazz go 0-29, they won't have a pick at all...)

Yes, a 7th pick is more valuable than the 15th. The difference is much, much less than between the 2nd and 7th. And tanking isn't free, all the developing and promising players (who have value to the Jazz) lose value. Loss of value > gain of value from a slightly better pick.

Yeah, Lauri was picked 7th. Other All-Stars: Sabonis 11, SGA 11, PG 10, Giannis 15, Donovan 13, Jokic 41, Bam 14.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I do understand how the lottery works...

But to have a 35 % chance at a top3 pick (2/3 chance it's not!), you have to have the 4th seed in the lottery. Getting the 4th seed is pretty much impossible, even going 0-29 the rest of the way. (And even though I think Silver is mostly full of hot air, if the Jazz go 0-29, they won't have a pick at all...)

I could see us landing 9th or 10th but likely not all the way to 6/7... even though its tight.

Yes, a 7th pick is more valuable than the 15th. The difference is much, much less than between the 2nd and 7th. And tanking isn't free, all the developing and promising players (who have value to the Jazz) lose value. Loss of value > gain of value from a slightly better pick.

This isn't really true. Tanking for years can have an organizational costs sure. Trading Mike/JC/KO and losing 5 -6 more games over a 30 game span won't bother anything and in fact will provide a valuable development window for us to see Ochai, NAW, THT, Sexton more. Add in the assets and its even sweeter. You can likely flip the 7th pick for two picks in the 10-14 range and double your chances at finding the guys you listed below... You also get a much better shot at getting your guy... and are in a range where you could move to 3 or 4 if you really wanted to.

Yeah, Lauri was picked 7th. Other All-Stars: Sabonis 11, SGA 11, PG 10, Giannis 15, Donovan 13, Jokic 41, Bam 14.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And if we sell off Mike, JC, Beasley for assets and Lauri/Walker/Ochai and then they carry us to the playoffs... it means they leveled up again or we got some real pop from NAW, Sexton, etc.

There really is only upside.

 

[Korisfani]

Trading Mike/JC/KO and losing 5 -6 more games over a 30 game span won't bother anything and in fact will provide a valuable development window for us to see Ochai, NAW, THT, Sexton more. Add in the assets and its even sweeter.

That's not tanking though. That's not benching everyone to go on a 10 game losing streak.

That's something I in fact support - given there's value in those trades and whatever contracts come the Jazz's way don't restrict future moves too much.

 

[KqWIN]

I do understand how the lottery works...

But to have a 35 % chance at a top3 pick (2/3 chance it's not!), you have to have the 4th seed in the lottery. Getting the 4th seed is pretty much impossible, even going 0-29 the rest of the way. (And even though I think Silver is mostly full of hot air, if the Jazz go 0-29, they won't have a pick at all...)

Yes, a 7th pick is more valuable than the 15th. The difference is much, much less than between the 2nd and 7th. And tanking isn't free, all the developing and promising players (who have value to the Jazz) lose value. Loss of value > gain of value from a slightly better pick.

Yeah, Lauri was picked 7th. Other All-Stars: Sabonis 11, SGA 11, PG 10, Giannis 15, Donovan 13, Jokic 41, Bam 14.

Developing players do not gain value for sitting on the bench when vets play instead of them. If anything, it’s the complete opposite. Development isn’t free and it usually comes at the cost of losing games.

People are getting lost in the sauce with the development stuff. We’re acting like Lauri is going to disappear into the void if he can’t play with Mike Conley for 30 games.

Truth is, nobody is gonna care what happened in the remaining 30 games once they are done. But I can guarantee that come draft time people are going to wishing they were drafting even just one spot earlier.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That's not tanking though. That's not benching everyone to go on a 10 game losing streak.

That's something I in fact support - given there's value in those trades and whatever contracts come the Jazz's way don't restrict future moves too much.

There are degrees my friend. Realistically we will not lose 10 straight... we won't be that obvious. It would not take much for us to slide down to 8-10ish. Go 6-14 over a 20 game stretch and you are there.

 

[whatthe]

I think it is Clarkson, Beasely, and Sexton + 2023 BKN + 2nd rounder pick for Westbrook + 2FRP + Pickswap.

 

[Korisfani]

Developing players do not gain value for sitting on the bench when vets play instead of them. If anything, it’s the complete opposite. Development isn’t free and it usually comes at the cost of losing games.

To get the 4th seed in the lottery, the Jazz aren't playing the developing players. They're playing Dok, Bolmaro, Fontecchio and whatever rejects they got in the trades.

There are degrees my friend. Realistically we will not lose 10 straight... we won't be that obvious. It would not take much for us to slide down to 8-10ish. Go 6-14 over a 20 game stretch and you are there.

Well, you and your scenario wasn't what I was responding to. It was getting the 4th seed with the 10 game streaks.