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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

KqWIN said:
Developing players do not gain value for sitting on the bench when vets play instead of them. If anything, it’s the complete opposite. Development isn’t free and it usually comes at the cost of losing games.

People are getting lost in the sauce with the development stuff. We’re acting like Lauri is going to disappear into the void if he can’t play with Mike Conley for 30 games.

Truth is, nobody is gonna care what happened in the remaining 30 games once they are done. But I can guarantee that come draft time people are going to wishing they were drafting even just one spot earlier.
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I think we get a little lost too when seeing drafts in tiers. We may see Anthony Black and Jett Howard as the same cuz they are in the same tier... so whoever falls to us is cool. In reality though how much value would a gm give to move from 14 to 9? At least one more good first rounder has been required traditionally. So if we do sell off the vets you can basically tack on one extra pick to that package as part of the "value". That is in the worst case scenario. Best case you land top 4.

And say you are not sold on Scoot... say you believe in the curse of #2... do you know what the price would be to move back to 3 or 4 cuz someone is very likely sold on Scoot? We might be talking 2 or 3 additional picks.
 
Korisfani said:
To get the 4th seed in the lottery, the Jazz aren't playing the developing players. They're playing Dok, Bolmaro, Fontecchio and whatever rejects they got in the trades.

Well, you and your scenario wasn't what I was responding to. It was getting the 4th seed with the 10 game streaks.
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Yeah... I'm advocating for a light tank... not an extreme tank. Its so bunched up that you can make up (lose) ground quickly.
 
whatthe said:
I think it is Clarkson, Beasely, and Sexton + 2023 BKN + 2nd rounder pick for Westbrook + 2FRP + Pickswap.
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That would make some sense, and I would love that

Can you imagine if we replaced Beasley with KO and got additional assets out of Malik? That would be incredible
 
One thing about Ainge that he is a master at... He has several times successfully predicted/read the draft map. Did it with Tatum and moving the #1 pick... did it with Thybulle back in the day as well. Having a couple lotto/near lotto picks and the ammo he has could lead to some pretty galaxy brain stuff. Giving him the 9th pick may mean he gets the guy he wants while moving back and getting additional value (players of picks).
 
whatthe said:
I think it is Clarkson, Beasely, and Sexton + 2023 BKN + 2nd rounder pick for Westbrook + 2FRP + Pickswap.
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One of the more interesting Lakers trades I've seen thrown around that I think gets the Lakers closer to the value necessary for unprotected picks that the Lakers would have to send to be able to make the trade. Still would hard for them to pull the trigger, but Pelinka is in a lose-lose as far as smart GM decisions go

Lakers have talked about preserving cap space in 23-24 or 24-25 to make some big signings, but Clarkson/Beas/Sexton are great pieces to put around LeBron and finally get him some shooting, plus Clarkson's improved ball handling could be helpful off the bench
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
One thing about Ainge that he is a master at... He has several times successfully predicted/read the draft map. Did it with Tatum and moving the #1 pick... did it with Thybulle back in the day as well. Having a couple lotto/near lotto picks and the ammo he has could lead to some pretty galaxy brain stuff. Giving him the 9th pick may mean he gets the guy he wants while moving back and getting additional value (players of picks).
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Seeing Celtics fans bitch about Ainge's drafting always confused me. The Tatum move was all-time, Brown was a big hit even if it was top 3, Time Lord is a massive 27th pick, Grant Williams is a good 22nd pick. I mean sure Romeo Langford and stuff was bad, but Boston fans just have such a distorted view on reality after decades of success in everything
 
If the Raps decide to hold firm and do no moves or just Trent Jr... Danny Ainge may end up just having a field day. Chicago seems intent on ignoring the writing on the wall. Other potential sellers are sitting on their hands. He has to be sitting around with a perma boner and smiling at everyone all day.
 
Jaanipoeg said:
Seeing Celtics fans bitch about Ainge's drafting always confused me. The Tatum move was all-time, Brown was a big hit even if it was top 3, Time Lord is a massive 27th pick, Grant Williams is a good 22nd pick. I mean sure Romeo Langford and stuff was bad, but Boston fans just have such a distorted view on reality after decades of success in everything
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He had a bad run of middle first picks. The draft has a bigger luck element than folks would like to admit.
 
I have a gauntlet of calls today... guarantee news breaks this afternoon.
 
Jaanipoeg said:
Seeing Celtics fans bitch about Ainge's drafting always confused me. The Tatum move was all-time, Brown was a big hit even if it was top 3, Time Lord is a massive 27th pick, Grant Williams is a good 22nd pick. I mean sure Romeo Langford and stuff was bad, but Boston fans just have such a distorted view on reality after decades of success in everything
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Fans will never be satisfied with a drafting record because hindsight is 20/20. One miss negates all the hits, and people claim the hits were just lucky anyways. Saw a lot of that around here with the Jazz, it's just how fans are.
 
KqWIN said:
Fans will never be satisfied with a drafting record because hindsight is 20/20. One miss negates all the hits, and people claim the hits were just lucky anyways. Saw a lot of that around here with the Jazz, it's just how fans are.
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I just want the process to be smart. Taking Tony Bradley and Doke was dumb. I didn't like the Allen pick but its fine and I understood it. Take measured shots on getting the best value and hope you are lucky. If you take a center they better project as a shooter or an elite rim protector or have some other switchy ability. Taking large dinosaur centers from the 90s ain't it... especially if you have Rudy and are gonna roll out a full MLE for Favs.

If you miss... just miss in a smart way.
 
whatthe said:
I think it is Clarkson, Beasely, and Sexton + 2023 BKN + 2nd rounder pick for Westbrook + 2FRP + Pickswap.
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I think Lakers are already too guard heavy even if they do move WB. They need shooting, a bit more size and another defender than can get out to the perimeter.

I can see Beasley + Clarkson(or Sexton) + Vando ++
Olynyk is another guy they can play next to AD.

The JC stuff boils down to where he actually wants to play.

I hesitate to mention Klutch since some people apparently freak out at the mention but they do obviously rep JC, Vando, Sexton, and believe they also repped Beasley at one time too.
 
KqWIN said:
Fans will never be satisfied with a drafting record because hindsight is 20/20. One miss negates all the hits, and people claim the hits were just lucky anyways. Saw a lot of that around here with the Jazz, it's just how fans are.
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The Dok pick is inexcusable and a lot of people here were pissed rightfully so on draft night. Why the **** would you draft a backup center when you knew Favors was going to sign for the MLE and end up just a hair over the tax?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He had a bad run of middle first picks. The draft has a bigger luck element than folks would like to admit.
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Yeah Yabusele (16th), RJ Hunter (28th), and Romeo Langford (14th) were bad picks, but in that same run Robert Williams (27th), Grant Williams (22nd), Terry Rozier (16th), and Payton Pritchard (26th) were good to great picks. Plus he hit on all his high picks (Marcus Smart at 6, Jaylen Brown at 3, Jayson Tatum at 3)

I guess its more that I still see Boston fans warn me that Ainge is great for trades but **** at drafting. If he hit on 50% of our mid to late first rounders over the next 6 years that sounds like an above average outcome.
 
whatthe said:
I think it is Clarkson, Beasely, and Sexton + 2023 BKN + 2nd rounder pick for Westbrook + 2FRP + Pickswap.
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There is now way the Lakers would do that. They weren't willing to give up 2 first round picks in the offseason for a deal that would've landed them Bogey and either Beasley, Conley or Clarkson for the entire season. Why would they give up both first round picks and a pick swap now with less than 30 games left in the season, and with Bogey no longer part of the deal? I'm sure they would rather just let the rest of the season play out and let Russ's contract expire at the end of the season than give up 2 first round picks.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I just want the process to be smart. Taking Tony Bradley and Doke was dumb. I didn't like the Allen pick but its fine and I understood it. Take measured shots on getting the best value and hope you are lucky. If you take a center they better project as a shooter or an elite rim protector or have some other switchy ability. Taking large dinosaur centers from the 90s ain't it... especially if you have Rudy and are gonna roll out a full MLE for Favs.

If you miss... just miss in a smart way.
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I think you can point out Bradley and Doke as downright horrendous selections, especially given the roster context....but one Rudy Gobert selection undo's a late first round misses. Fans, however, are tilted the other way where one miss on a low outcome pick will just make people forget about incredible hits like Gobert and Mitchell. Like missing on the 27th pick is no where near as consequential as drafting a hall of famer at 27....but when talking about DL's draft record fans will be more likely to use Doke as key factor to his drafting ability and dismiss Gobert as luck or the expectation.

GM's will always have their preferences in prospects and will go back to well, especially if it works for them. Danny hit on Brown and Tatum, but the same biases led him to take James Young and Langford. The draft isn't a perfect science. But people will give Danny too much grief for picks like Langford and not enough credit for making touch decisions on Tatum and Brown.

My theory is that people have way too high of expectations to begin with, so when amazing things happen it's only meeting expectations. When a miss happens, it's the worst thing ever even if it's more reflective of reality. If you gave an objective median expectation of each pick, I think most fans would be disappointed.
 
I could see a more realistic Laker deal looking more like Clarkson, KO and Vando for Westbrook, their 2027 unprotected first, and a second round pick
 
LAL are not trading those picks or it would have happenned. Maybe one of them with protections for Cam Reddish or some other unproven prima
 
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