Feminism

[Tom Pitt]

So you

I don’t know you, so no my comment wasn’t personal.

You posted a block of opinions that reflect very clearly the media you consume and the male role models you’ve mentioned here. I have also listened to them, there is some value there for men, but it gets ruined once all the insecure garbage gets dumped in. To us feminists we want to sympathize with you. But that requires a lot of research and work you won’t find on Twitter and YouTube, or rumble, all the echo-spheres.

So my statement stands. I think you’re so biased and brainwashed by propaganda that I won’t engage on any of the things you claim. You don’t know anything about my argument.

If you do, please enlighten me and I’ll engage. Otherwise, I don’t have time to wait for you to catch up.


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Would you say you are one who deals in facts and is data driven or more interested in idealism? You say i have no idea what i am speaking about? You would say you do and know well every nook and cranny of the topic? And have analyzed data with an open mind and desire for truth? As i said, i am fully open to someone persuading me with facts. What i tend to find with leftists now days, is they don't like to deal with the facts they don't like and when their ideology is questioned, they resort to virtue signaling, portray an anointed one mentality dismiss the questioner by discrediting them by attacking character or motive.

 

[fishonjazz]

What i tend to find with leftists now days, is they don't like to deal with the facts they don't like

Ironic considering who coined the phrase "alternative facts" and who is anti fact checking.

 

[Tom Pitt]

Ironic considering who coined the phrase "alternative facts" and who is anti fact checking.

Haha Vance literally had to fact check the fact checker in a debate. And he was right!

 

[fishonjazz]

Haha Vance literally had to fact check the fact checker in a debate. And he was right!

I notice that you didn't respond to anything in my post.
Then you have fox news getting sued and losing for not being factual.

 

[Tom Pitt]

I notice that you didn't respond to anything in my post.
Then you have fox news getting sued and losing for not being factual.

Yeah... i mean look, i think what makes these conversations difficult and clunky are basically differing based assumptions. And some are rooted in preference for how things should be and some are rooted in fabrication. I can tell you right now I think fox news is full of sh*t a lot. But I can tell you MSNBC is equally or even more so full of the sh*t too. Haha. And you have influencers on that side that spin some crazy takes... like Jabari Sellers saying it is worse for black Americans now than back in the 40's and 50's. The hyper focus on race is among other things, just a gambit for power imo. Cause if racism gets solved you the oppressed group loses power. There's no incentive to make it sound like we're even doing better than before. There is incentive to make it sound like racism is a bigger problem.

Sometimes the fact checkers are right and sometimes they mislead a bit

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah... i mean look, i think what makes these conversations difficult and clunky are basically differing based assumptions. And some are rooted in preference for how things should be and some are rooted in fabrication. I can tell you right I think fox news is full of sh*t a lot. But I can tell you MSNBC is equally or even more so full of the sh*t too. Haha. And you have influencers on that side that spin some crazy takes... like Jabari Sellers saying it is worse for black Americans now than back in the 40's and 50's. The hyper focus on race is just a gambit for power imo. Cause if racism gets solved you the oppressed group loses power. There's no incentive to make it sound like we're even doing better than before. There is incentive to make it sound like racism is a bigger problem.

Sometimes the fact checkers are right and sometimes they mislead a bit

I think you are moving away from the discussion and I understand why.
I will stay on topic and loop it back around for ya.
You: "What i tend to find with leftists now days, is they don't like to deal with the facts they don't like"
Me: Ironic considering who coined the phrase "alternative facts" and who is anti fact checking. trumps press secretary didn't want to deal with facts that she didn't like so she said she likes to deal with alternative facts. trump didn't like to deal with facts he didn't like in a debate vs Harris when he was fact checked and it upset him bigly. Fox news didn't like dealing with facts they dont like and got sued in court for it. Then you bring up how vance didn't like being fact checked with facts he didn't like. I consider trumps press secretary, trump himself, Vance, and Fox news to all be on the right.

You produced a statement ("What i tend to find with leftists now days, is they don't like to deal with the facts they don't like") devoid of facts or examples. Just your feels. I produced some factual examples contradictory to your feels.

 

[Sardines]

Yeah... i mean look, i think what makes these conversations difficult and clunky are basically differing based assumptions. And some are rooted in preference for how things should be and some are rooted in fabrication. I can tell you right now I think fox news is full of sh*t a lot. But I can tell you MSNBC is equally or even more so full of the sh*t too. Haha. And you have influencers on that side that spin some crazy takes... like Jabari Sellers saying it is worse for black Americans now than back in the 40's and 50's. The hyper focus on race is among other things, just a gambit for power imo. Cause if racism gets solved you the oppressed group loses power. There's no incentive to make it sound like we're even doing better than before. There is incentive to make it sound like racism is a bigger problem.

Sometimes the fact checkers are right and sometimes they mislead a bit

I think a major discrepancy here is that people on the right who watch a lot of news and then listen to a lot of political podcasts or radio shows thinks that the left is equally steeped in their own propaganda.

I know very few liberals who watch news at all. I personally do not watch or listen to anyone explain the news to me. I read news articles from various sources. I am not attached in any way shape or form to a news personality like a Hannity, Gutfeld, or Carlson except with a liberal point of view. I listen to podcasts a lot and absolutely zero of them are about politics.

I work with a lot of people who are very into MAGA and during lunch that's about all they can talk about. When I have to drive in their car with them they are listening to MAGA political programming. When they are on their phone they are reading political news from a limited selection of friendly sources. I find it very dull. I do not see the same thing on the left.

I do listen to NPR on occasion. Many on the right think that NPR is a liberal equivalent of their favorite conservative media. What I listen to on NPR is Science Friday and This American Life. Is there an equivalent to that on conservative radio? Is there a significant chunk of programing time devoted to science, learning, arts? That's never what I hear when the MAGA goon sits in a public place and plays his Turning Point podcast at high volume, clearly on purpose to make others hear the message he is faithful to.

 

[Tom Pitt]

I think you are moving away from the discussion and I understand why.
I will stay on topic and loop it back around for ya.
You: "What i tend to find with leftists now days, is they don't like to deal with the facts they don't like"
Me: Ironic considering who coined the phrase "alternative facts" and who is anti fact checking. trumps press secretary didn't want to deal with facts that she didn't like so she said she likes to deal with alternative facts. trump didn't like to deal with facts he didn't like in a debate vs Harris when he was fact checked and it upset him bigly. Fox news didn't like dealing with facts they dont like and got sued in court for it. Then you bring up how vance didn't like being fact checked with facts he didn't like. I consider trumps press secretary, trump himself, Vance, and Fox news to all be on the right.

You produced a statement ("What i tend to find with leftists now days, is they don't like to deal with the facts they don't like") devoid of facts or examples. Just your feels. I produced some factual examples contradictory to your feels.

I'm not even gonna try and defend Trump on lies. Wasn't it Regan who said nothing in politics is done on accident. It's all political theater. Both sides lie. The Biden admin lied too they just have the legacy media on their side so it's not as obvious or well reported. The legacy media spent Biden's whome term declaring Biden had never been sharper. And then the debate happened and we knew the truth. And the wall street journal reported their was internal concern about his cognitive competence as earlier as September 2021. Mike Johnson said he couldn't even get a meeting with Biden as speaker of the house. (Whether that's true or not who knows but would it be surprising). The best we can do is vote for who we think will help the american people the most. Personally, i didn't think that was Harris. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

But are they all not trying to form a narrative? Is it not all about power? Personally I think the forces on the left whether they be the legacy media or the Biden admin lie as much as Trump's admin. They're all in the business or duping the american people in one way or another.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

So you

Would you say you are one who deals in facts and is data driven or more interested in idealism? You say i have no idea what i am speaking about? You would say you do and know well every nook and cranny of the topic? And have analyzed data with an open mind and desire for truth? As i said, i am fully open to someone persuading me with facts. What i tend to find with leftists now days, is they don't like to deal with the facts they don't like and when their ideology is questioned, they resort to virtue signaling, portray an anointed one mentality dismiss the questioner by discrediting them by attacking character or motive.

No. I think your world view is nothing more than an algorithm, fed to you. I don’t agree with your definition of a fact, I don’t think you really know what you’re talking about. I know you think you do, but to the outsider with more information than you, I would have to explain things, written by women and men, that you have not studied let alone read.

I won’t engage with you in any conversation about this topic because I’m not here to teach you ****. That’s your responsibility to learn.

If I were you I would not talk about body count. We all know how low your social IQ is, we can assume the rest about your knowledge of sex.


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[Tom Pitt]

I think a major discrepancy here is that people on the right who watch a lot of news and then listen to a lot of political podcasts or radio shows thinks that the left is equally steeped in their own propaganda.

I know very few liberals who watch news at all. I personally do not watch or listen to anyone explain the news to me. I read news articles from various sources. I am not attached in any way shape or form to a news personality like a Hannity, Gutfeld, or Carlson except with a liberal point of view. I listen to podcasts a lot and absolutely zero of them are about politics.

I work with a lot of people who are very into MAGA and during lunch that's about all they can talk about. When I have to drive in their car with them they are listening to MAGA political programming. When they are on their phone they are reading political news from a limited selection of friendly sources. I find it very dull. I do not see the same thing on the left.

I do listen to NPR on occasion. Many on the right think that NPR is a liberal equivalent of their favorite conservative media. What I listen to on NPR is Science Friday and This American Life. Is there an equivalent to that on conservative radio? Is there a significant chunk of programing time devoted to science, learning, arts? That's never what I hear when the MAGA goon sits in a public place and plays his Turning Point podcast at high volume, clearly on purpose to make others hear the message he is faithful to.

You may be right. I'm not totally sure. But the implicit assumptions of leftism are mostly baked into the American people from a very young age via mainstream culture and education are they not? Like, how many kids in America have heen taught homogeneous societies are more cohesive than diverse societies? Whether that's true or not isn't the point. leftist ideology has a massive programming headstart. You could say Cheering for the underdog for example is a very socialist ideal. My whole family on my mom's side is liberals. They watch msnbc and CNN a lot. But that may not be the norm. Certainly reading any article from any legacy publication (except for the new york post?) is going to have leftist leanings

 

[Tom Pitt]

No. I think your world view is nothing more than an algorithm, fed to you. I don’t agree with your definition of a fact, I don’t think you really know what you’re talking about. I know you think you do, but to the outsider with more information than you, I would have to explain things, written by women and men, that you have not studied let alone read.

I won’t engage with you in any conversation about this topic because I’m not here to teach you ****. That’s your responsibility to learn.

If I were you I would not talk about body count. We all know how low your social IQ is, we can assume the rest about your knowledge of sex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

you should lighten up my man. I find your cold responses curious. I'm just trying to have an open discussion. But okay, you're right? My words are mere product of algorithm beep bop beep bop. I know nothing beep bop beep bop haha

 

[Sardines]

You may be right. I'm not totally sure. But the implicit assumptions of leftism are mostly baked into the American people from a very young age via mainstream culture and education are they not? Like, how many kids in America have heen taught homogeneous societies are more cohesive than diverse societies? Whether that's true or not isn't the point. leftist ideology has a massive programming headstart. You could say Cheering for the underdog for example is a very socialist ideal. My whole family on my mom's side is liberals. They watch msnbc and CNN a lot. But that may not be the norm. Certainly reading any article from any legacy publication (except for the new york post?) is going to have leftist leanings

Yes because the liberal assumption is that we should treat one another better, help one another more, and accept the difference that exist amongst us, such as skin color, sexual preference, religion, etc..

I think in the past the conservative message was that those things are fine in moderation but there is danger in taking that ideology too far too fast. Now the message is that those things are the enemy of our nation's greatness.

 

[Tom Pitt]

The only decent thing Thatcher did was die.

The nuclear family is for the most part an American invention, the idea of mum, dad and the kids as a stand alone unit. This was promoted in America as an idea to encourage people to move around for work ect. In European cultures its more common for people to live with large extended families, this can be a problem for capitalism because people are reluctant to move away from their family structure for employment. As an example i come from immigrant families but we immigrated together, so despite having left Europe 70 years ago, I have an extended family of over 100 people who live within a relatively small geographic spread. If you took my house and drew a circle with a radius of say 30 miles, you'd easily collect 60 or 70 of my extended family.

Interesting take. Many people believe the nanny state decimated the black nuclear family and that has hurt African American's. I'm assuming you don't believe that. Per capita crime being highest among African Americans, do you believe this is more a symptom of poverty and systemic racism still or is could it be the dissolution of traditional judeo-Christian values taught in the home by parents committed to one another and their children?

 

[fishonjazz]

I think a major discrepancy here is that people on the right who watch a lot of news and then listen to a lot of political podcasts or radio shows thinks that the left is equally steeped in their own propaganda.

I know very few liberals who watch news at all. I personally do not watch or listen to anyone explain the news to me. I read news articles from various sources. I am not attached in any way shape or form to a news personality like a Hannity, Gutfeld, or Carlson except with a liberal point of view. I listen to podcasts a lot and absolutely zero of them are about politics.

I work with a lot of people who are very into MAGA and during lunch that's about all they can talk about. When I have to drive in their car with them they are listening to MAGA political programming. When they are on their phone they are reading political news from a limited selection of friendly sources. I find it very dull. I do not see the same thing on the left.

I do listen to NPR on occasion. Many on the right think that NPR is a liberal equivalent of their favorite conservative media. What I listen to on NPR is Science Friday and This American Life. Is there an equivalent to that on conservative radio? Is there a significant chunk of programing time devoted to science, learning, arts? That's never what I hear when the MAGA goon sits in a public place and plays his Turning Point podcast at high volume, clearly on purpose to make others hear the message he is faithful to.

same. Have literally not watched cnn, or msnbc, or fox or any news program in years. Tried to start listening to that Meidas Touch podcast and made it about 5 minutes and gave up and haven't listened since.
i dont have twitter. I have never listened to joe rogan. I literally cant name a political newscaster on the left other than John Stewart? And I only watch him when one of his videos are posted on jazzfanz lol. I mean i dont know the name of a single news personality on cnn (I assume CNN is the opposite of fox news)
I listen to KSL 1160 (a conservative station) a bit on my 10 minute drive to and from work but even then I listen to pandora or sports radio more than KSL.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yes because the liberal assumption is that we should treat one another better, help one another more, and accept the difference that exist amongst us, such as skin color, sexual preference, religion, etc..

I think in the past the conservative message was that those things are fine in moderation but there is danger in taking that ideology too far too fast. Now the message is that those things are the enemy of our nation's greatness.

This.

 

[fishonjazz]

You may be right. I'm not totally sure. But the implicit assumptions of leftism are mostly baked into the American people from a very young age via mainstream culture and education are they not? Like, how many kids in America have heen taught homogeneous societies are more cohesive than diverse societies? Whether that's true or not isn't the point. leftist ideology has a massive programming headstart. You could say Cheering for the underdog for example is a very socialist ideal. My whole family on my mom's side is liberals. They watch msnbc and CNN a lot. But that may not be the norm. Certainly reading any article from any legacy publication (except for the new york post?) is going to have leftist leanings

Ya I agree that I do try to teach my daughter to be kind to everyone regardless of their sex, skin color, wealth, etc. Sorry, not sorry?

 

[fishonjazz]

Mostly my news/politics/whatever is based on me watching trump speak and act how he speaks and acts and then calling him out for being a piece of ****.
To me that has nothing to do with being partisan or left or right or whatever.

 

[fishonjazz]

I have said it before but if trump never got into politics then no one would think I was a leftist/liberal/democrat.
I never voted for a single democrat prior to trump showing up on the scene. Since he has arrived I have probably voted for just as many republicans as democrats. Just not in the presidential race. I refuse to vote for such a horrible human being. Fully understanding that the democratic presidential candidates I have voted for are no angels but there are degrees of immorality, corruption, dishonesty, and scandal and trump is at the highest end of the spectrum of all time.

 

[Tom Pitt]

Ya I agree that I do try to teach my daughter to be kind to everyone regardless of their sex, skin color, wealth, etc. Sorry, not sorry?

I 100% agree people should be judged NOT by the color of their skin but by the content of their character but are you sure neo-liberalism advocates for that? That's the problem. This is why Trump won the popular vote in my opinion. Neo liberalism isn't true liberalism. They now advocate for many of the same things they were initially against.


View: https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg

 

[Tom Pitt]

Yes because the liberal assumption is that we should treat one another better, help one another more, and accept the difference that exist amongst us, such as skin color, sexual preference, religion, etc..

I think in the past the conservative message was that those things are fine in moderation but there is danger in taking that ideology too far too fast. Now the message is that those things are the enemy of our nation's greatness.

i was a democrat for most of my life. I don't believe that's what leftist ideology is about anymore... i think it's veiled in tolerance and progressivism though. Is judging people on character instead of Color of their skin truly a tenet of neo-liberalism? I'm not sure it is.