Right. I guess the way I imagined the Wheel to work is like 1,30,2,29, etc, but I guess it might make more sense to do 1,30,15,16,2,29, etc. That way each team gets a top 5 pick every 6 years.
Solving For Tanking, We're smart, let's figure it out
- Thread starter SoberasHotRod
- Start date
Tanktastic
Well-Known Member
The only reason the draft exists is to level the playing field. The Wheel completely eliminates that. Instead, it would make more sense to eliminate the draft. And then do something else to prevent the biggest teams just paying the most for the best young players.
The Wheel absolutely evens the playing field. It prevents tanking, so everyone is trying and it gives equal opportunity in the draft over the course of time.
The lottery is just stupid. "Hey 10 teams, be extremely ****** and 3 of you might break out of the poverty cycle". Its not good for the product. The lottery being so popular is a byproduct of the rings culture the NBA media has pushed so hard. It's all BS.
HadAnEffectHere
Well-Known Member
1. Remove luxury tax payouts from teams that win fewer than 1/3 of their games on the whole season or fewer than 1/3 of their games post trade deadline.
2. Teams that win fewer than 1/3 of their games on the whole season or fewer than 1/3 of their games post trade deadline are also banned from trading away draft picks or trading for draft picks until two years after that season.
You don't want to punish genuinely bad teams in terms of making them worse, just harm the strategically tanking teams.
2. Teams that win fewer than 1/3 of their games on the whole season or fewer than 1/3 of their games post trade deadline are also banned from trading away draft picks or trading for draft picks until two years after that season.
You don't want to punish genuinely bad teams in terms of making them worse, just harm the strategically tanking teams.
Tanktastic
Well-Known Member
No, it doesn't. It does nothing to the playing field. Everyone receives equally: the Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, Bulls - and the Jazz, Wizards, Cavs. The strong stay strongest indefinitely, the weak stay weak.
Those advantaged by their circumstances (market size, revenue, brand, popularity, previous success) keep that advantage and everyone else is at a disadvantage. The only way to beat the giants is by being better: ownerhsip, management, coaching.
Tanktastic
Well-Known Member
Imagine me and you standing next to Markkanen & Kessler. If we get a ladder, the playing field is leveled. If everyone gets a stool, I don't think I'm reaching as high as Lauri is. Unless I'm smart enough invent attachable springs that no-one else has done.
The Wheel would have irrefutably helped the Jazz franchise over its history. Imagine the Stockton/Malone era with the wheel. Imagine the Dwill era with The Wheel. Imagine the Gobert/Mitchell era with The Wheel.
The league should encourage teams to build their best teams possible outside the draft then use the draft to equally spread talent
The only reason we have the lottery is peoples obsession with low chance odds at a good outcome
The league should encourage teams to build their best teams possible outside the draft then use the draft to equally spread talent
The only reason we have the lottery is peoples obsession with low chance odds at a good outcome
Tanktastic
Well-Known Member
No, again, the only reason for the draft is leveling the playing field. The only reason for the lottery is to (try to, at least...) prevent extreme tanking.
The Jazz will have a 14 % chance at the #1 and 100 % chance at a top5-6 pick. The Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, Warriors have 0 % chance at a top14 pick.
It doesn't level the playing field. It creates a terrible product where up to a third of teams will try to lose on purpose for multiple years in hopes of building a team that can compete for a 3 year window. The good/big market teams we are so worried about will always have an advantage.
The Wheel would encourage good team building and extend the windows of smart franchises. Bad teams will still have plenty of high picks.
It's just beyond stupid to encourage losing.
Again, Sports should not only be about championships. Leveling the playing field shouldn't be about making all teams having an equal chance at winning the Finals (though I would argue The Wheel does increase the number). Leveling the playing field should be about giving incentive for all 30 teams to try and win every single game they can.
Again, imagine if the prime Mitchell/Gobert team knew they had a top 10 pick coming to them. We wouldnt blow the team up. Wed keep it together because we would know we had a chance to add talent while still winning
Again, imagine if the prime Mitchell/Gobert team knew they had a top 10 pick coming to them. We wouldnt blow the team up. Wed keep it together because we would know we had a chance to add talent while still winning
Tanktastic
Well-Known Member
But it does. There can be outliers and paradigm shifters (Jokic, Curry), but otherwise all the Finals would be played by only the biggest teams.
Yes, I think almost everyone agrees it's complete *********. But, again, with The Wheel you might just as well abolish the draft, because it no longer serves any purpose.
Yes, a bigger one with The Wheel.
No, they won't. They'll have a top3 pick on average once in 10 years.
No-one disagrees.
Tanktastic
Well-Known Member
Imagine the Jazz knowing they don't have a top10 pick coming to them for four years. Sure, no use blowing it up - unless you get a guaranteed #2 pick and a guaranteed #4 pick etc. Maybe they blow it up even quicker?
Being Anti Wheel because the Lakers might get a top pick while they are good is so stupid. Overly focused on a bad outcome while ignoring how much positive impact it would have for other teams and the on court product as a whole
There is no reason to blow it up unless a team is offering you their top pick in the upcoming wheel. Which again, is a positive because trade values are known and not a product of making your fanbase's hopes tied to low % chance outcomes based off injury luck of other teams
Tanktastic
Well-Known Member
No, being stupid is thinking that something that is anti leveling is in fact pro. Basic understanding severely lacking.
And I have no problem with the Lakers, great franchise, always arrogant to a point of it benefiting them (see: Luka).
But if the draft / lottery is replaced with something, I would expect all fans of small-market teams object to The Wheel, because it severely disadvantages them compared to the current situation. Which again, is awful.
So your problem is not with the draft, but with the lottery?
Small market fans I'm sure love having to be awful for 5 years and banking on %14 chance odds
Fix the draft order for the next 30 years so that every team gets every pick. One team would get first pick year one last pick year 2, middle pick year 3, etc. Set draft position by one random lottery.
the illusory notion off parity, even if possible, is far outweighed by having teams rewarded for losing. It is a stain on the league.
the illusory notion off parity, even if possible, is far outweighed by having teams rewarded for losing. It is a stain on the league.
Chargers Jazz Angels
Well-Known Member
What is instead of a wheel you jump back and forth say the jazz have the #1 the next year they pick #30. Next year #2 then #29. So forth.
Serpentine draft would help also.
A true minor league. Bottom 2 team drop to the gleague top 2 team to the nba.
Serpentine draft would help also.
A true minor league. Bottom 2 team drop to the gleague top 2 team to the nba.
The reason the lottery was instigated was because teams were tanking to get the worst record which guaranteed they would get the #1 pick. Originally all teams in the lottery had the same odds in the lottery. This resulted in many good teams getting the top pick and bad teams getting the worst pick . this should have greatly reduced tanking for the worst record, but for some reason it was determined that it was unfair to the perennially bad teams so the league started dicking with the odds, rewarding teams for losing.
They could go back to the original lottery which would eliminate blatantly tanking for the worst record.
My other thought is to have a lottery for the first 5 draft slots that includes all NBA teams. Every team has the same odds. After that lottery the lottery for the remaining non playoff teams would commence with all remaining non playoff teams having equal chances. I think this would greatly reduce the incentives to tank.
They could go back to the original lottery which would eliminate blatantly tanking for the worst record.
My other thought is to have a lottery for the first 5 draft slots that includes all NBA teams. Every team has the same odds. After that lottery the lottery for the remaining non playoff teams would commence with all remaining non playoff teams having equal chances. I think this would greatly reduce the incentives to tank.
You wouldn't give a team 1 and 2 in a 4 year span
You would need some kind of analytical value model to come up with the best order (which they have probably already done)