Trade for Giannis?

[NUMBERICA]

I’ve been perusing the Bucks board on RealGM and there is a sizable contingent that make a point that I think everyone should consider:

Giannis is arguably worth multiple 1st overall picks since so few of them turn out as good as Giannis. It’s valid, and I think it blows up the lazy assumption that you can just throw a bunch of picks at Milwaukee to get Giannis, especially since they don’t control their own so they lose their best rebuilding card right off the top.

It’s gonna take AT LEAST one budding star (rookie contract), good vets on substantial but discount contracts (not dead salary), AND a haul of draft assets. We can’t offer that, but maybe we can offer those vets in a multi-team trade and get some assets out of it.

TLDR; we will not get Giannis. The best we can do is help Milwaukee keep Giannis or be a tertiary player in a Giannis deal.

 

[fishonjazz]

Or maybe you get Flagg and you trade Flagg/Collins/Clarkson for Giannis w/ a pick or two?

Then turn around and trade Kessler to another team for some kind of haul.

Ya Im not trading Flagg if we get him.

 

[KqWIN]

Gotcha. I just wonder how precious they get about Amen and Alpy and without that piece I think they lose out... if another team comes correct.

I guess I'd say that I put zero stock into this "untradeable" business. Of course they say that. I'm sure the Spurs will say Castle is untradeable. Any team that gets too precious about what they have won't get Giannis. There will be a massive bidding war unless Nico becomes the GM of the Bucks. IMO, HOU is in a great position to trade for Giannis because they have every kind of asset available. They have pretty much every kind of asset you could desire whether that's a young budding star, a young actual all star, a great young player like Eason, second draft guys, premium future picks, their own future picks. Giannis won't go to the team who is best for him, he will go to the team that trades the most for him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Can Masai recapture his magic and do like Barnes/Barrett, 2025 #7, and then like 27/29/31 picks for Giannis/Pat. Its kinda interesting for both teams. Giannis/IQ/Ingram/Dick/Poeltl

Does the connection those two have get it done?

 

[NUMBERICA]

I really think the Jazz’s best play is helping to keep Giannis in Milwaukee as long as possible by dangling Sexton and Collins for Dame and their ‘31 and ‘32 pick swaps. If you can get them to bite, that move (and the subsequent salary flexibility) might give them another 3-5 years.

In the meantime, we bake our cake, and in 3-5 years when the Bucks are ready to trade him, we have hostage swaps and hopefully/probably some really good young players on rookie contracts.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Then you can try and deal Sexton to the Nets for Cam Johnson. Would probably have to include two first.

So after the Sexton/Walker deals your team looks like:

Collier
Reaves
Cam Johnson
Lauri
Giannis

Bench: Flip/Williams/Sensabaugh plus whoever you can add in UFA. Plus I still believe Harkless breaks out next year.

Starting Collier is kind of scary given his lack of shooting, but if he can become a semi-respectable open shooter, that's a great starting 5 with a terrible bench.

You'd have to add a nice backup 5 (Brook Lopez joins?) and some veteran guard depth. Actually a decent amount of solid backup 5 options for a team that doesnt need a ton of minutes from that player.

You are getting closer, and this is after like 30 minutes of work. I'm sure Ainge could figure something out.

I will say, as good as Giannis is, he's not the easiest to build around (It's not exactly difficult either). You really need to surround him with shooters though to maximize what he does. I had him in the annual draft thing and I remember I was constantly looking at shooting volume/percentages for each guy I thought about taking after him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I guess I'd say that I put zero stock into this "untradeable" business. Of course they say that. I'm sure the Spurs will say Castle is untradeable. Any team that gets too precious about what they have won't get Giannis. There will be a massive bidding war unless Nico becomes the GM of the Bucks. IMO, HOU is in a great position to trade for Giannis because they have every kind of asset available. They have pretty much every kind of asset you could desire whether that's a young budding star, a young actual all star, a great young player like Eason, second draft guys, premium future picks, their own future picks. Giannis won't go to the team who is best for him, he will go to the team that trades the most for him.

Teams get weird though. So I am not sure what to make of it. GA isn't like Donovan or Rudy though... he's levels above that so maybe it is just grumble. I'm thinking of the Grimes, MdDaniels, Podz stuff but at a higher level because Castle/Amen and those guys are a level up... I would think GMs would come to their senses but who knows.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I really think the Jazz’s best play is helping to keep Giannis in Milwaukee as long as possible by dangling Sexton and Collins for Dame and their ‘31 and ‘32 pick swaps. If you can get them to bite, that move (and the subsequent salary flexibility) might give them another 3-5 years.

In the meantime, we bake our cake, and in 3-5 years when the Bucks are ready to trade him, we have hostage swaps and hopefully/probably some really good young players on rookie contracts.

Sending
-Lauri
-theoretical budding star (probably not Flagg)
-all the 2029 picks
-their swaps returned

Sounds like a proper return for when he’s on the downslope of his career but still really ****ing good.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I really think the Jazz’s best play is helping to keep Giannis in Milwaukee as long as possible by dangling Sexton and Collins for Dame and their ‘31 and ‘32 pick swaps. If you can get them to bite, that move (and the subsequent salary flexibility) might give them another 3-5 years.

In the meantime, we bake our cake, and in 3-5 years when the Bucks are ready to trade him, we have hostage swaps and hopefully/probably some really good young players on rookie contracts.

Podcast spoiler but... Say Milwaukee says they just can't do any firsts... would you move Collins and Clarkson for the 2031 and 2032 2nds that the Bucks have?

The three team Suns/Bucks/Jazz trade where we send Collins and Sexton to Phoenix for the 26 and 28 firsts they have (its the worst of 3-4 teams but still), Beal goes to Milwaukee and Dame comes to Utah is the trade I am most wanting to do. Bucks send a second somewhere but at least have a guy where they would have none. They were rumored to be in on Beal this season so I think this would be pretty appealing. Beal can raise his market value for FA in a couple years while making a playoff run. Bucks use MLE to get something helpful.

 

[KqWIN]

I really think the Jazz’s best play is helping to keep Giannis in Milwaukee as long as possible by dangling Sexton and Collins for Dame and their ‘31 and ‘32 pick swaps. If you can get them to bite, that move (and the subsequent salary flexibility) might give them another 3-5 years.

In the meantime, we bake our cake, and in 3-5 years when the Bucks are ready to trade him, we have hostage swaps and hopefully/probably some really good young players on rookie contracts.

Agreed, this is our place. I think we should get something for taking Dame's contract, but it's probably worth it to us to trade Sexton and Collins for Dame straight up. I wouldn't be too picky about what we get.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Agreed, this is our place. I think we should get something for taking Dame's contract, but it's probably worth it to us to trade Sexton and Collins for Dame straight up. I wouldn't be too picky about what we get.

So what are we getting? Is this a… down payment?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Agreed, this is our place. I think we should get something for taking Dame's contract, but it's probably worth it to us to trade Sexton and Collins for Dame straight up. I wouldn't be too picky about what we get.

Sub JC in and flip Sexton elsewhere... get the 2nd rounders if the first rounders are a no fly zone. They can convince Giannis they can still move those picks later for something else.

We need to be in on this.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So what are we getting? Is this a… down payment?

They have seconds in 2031 and 2032.

 

[NUMBERICA]

TLDR; I really don’t think the Bucks trade Giannis this offseason and I don’t think they should… if they can turn Dame and stuff into real players.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think we are in a good place to leverage these situations against each other too. There are not many or any spots available for Dame or Beal to get dumped. Brooklyn maybe but they will value their cap space next offseason maybe. I would try and get the 26/28 picks the Suns have and would be willing to eat Beal's contract and just waive him if that's what it took to get him to waive the no trade. If you can get those picks and Dame's deal that you can use later... even better. But I would try and leverage the teams against each other a bit to get what you are after.

 

[NUMBERICA]

They have seconds in 2031 and 2032.

Ehhh… even with being okay taking kinda crummy value, this is too low. What is Dame going to be? You have to get anything worthwhile if you’re eating $120 million to get, what, Derek Fisher without the defense for maybe a season or two?

 

[KqWIN]

So what are we getting? Is this a… down payment?

I see Sexton and Collins as having strictly negative value for us next season. You could argue that they'd have future value if we extend/re-sign them....but IMO the risk of losing our pick with them is too high to keep them. We were fortunate this year with the tank, let's not mess around. I want to tank again next year, and the following year we'll be ready to try to win something. Dame won't be the same and he'll be very overpaid, but he'll give us something. Then we can sign him to a more reasonable deal as we compete and he heads into the twilight of his career.

Sub JC in and flip Sexton elsewhere... get the 2nd rounders if the first rounders are a no fly zone. They can convince Giannis they can still move those picks later for something else.

We need to be in on this.

Sure, whatever we should maximize the picks we get with JC and Sexton.....but it's definitely a situation where I think we take best offer no matter it is. If it's nothing, take nothing and your reward is that maybe you don't have to trade Lauri.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Worst case scenario... a deal I think Milwaukee would do even if Giannis is getting moved would be sending Collins/Clarkson/Svi (salary purposes) for Dame and 2031 and 2032 seconds and a 2030 swap - its the opposite of a Super Swap tho... its a swap on a swap but its with Portland and Milwaukee.... maybe both teams suck. Saves them 12m+ this year... infinity next year... gives them a starter, a bench piece, and a fill in when injuries hit guy.

Saves us from watching JC this year. Winning?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ehhh… even with being okay taking kinda crummy value, this is too low. What is Dame going to be? You have to get anything worthwhile if you’re eating $120 million to get, what, Derek Fisher without the defense for maybe a season or two?

We are tanking so nothing is something for next year. We want that. The following year he is trade fodder for a big deal or whatever he gives that is positive. Cool locker room guy but its a lot of money for that. I don't think he's completely done but not expecting much.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

TLDR; I really don’t think the Bucks trade Giannis this offseason and I don’t think they should… if they can turn Dame and stuff into real players.

Seems crazy to mortgage even more of their draft capital to fake compete for a few more years. They should 100% trade Giannis and start the process now.