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The reality of Harris and Jefferson and any possible trade

orangello

orangello

Well-Known Member
Mods please do whatever you want with this tread after I get this out.

Harris and Jefferson are decent to good role players for a team that might be missing a piece. The Jazz are going to come out of any trade scenario involving one or both of these guys, with something that they do not want.

Things that the Jazz don't want but will have to live with include:
1) More salary
2) Contracts that extend past 2 years
3) Giving up a future draft pick, first or second round
4) Other teams garbage

I am trying to appeal to everyone that shuts down any possible trade because they don't like some aspect of it. Harris and Jefferson are just not good enough to demand anything significant.

This is the reality of Harris and Jefferson in any possibly trade.
 
I completely agree with the above thread. Though Harris and Jefferson are rather good players, they are overpaid for what they provide, and as such they are untradeable unless the trade involves us taking on something we don't want.

Now as it happens right now, the jazz are under the luxury tax and have a trade exception, so we could take on a one year salary for a team who wants a salary dump, kind of like when we got rid of the last year of Harpring's contract to save twenty million dollars. (his salary plus tax money) So this is the type of thing the Jazz could do: take from another team one young player or draft pick, take on one of their one year bad contracts, and send their way the trade exception, and possibly a few small pieces to make the numbers work. Notice that none of this includes Al or Harris, because they are already bad contracts, so nobody else would want them or would be willing to trade young prospects for them. All we can hope to do is have Al or Harris be good veterans to teach the young guys while their contracts deminsh. Now next year, when they are on the last year of their deal, suddenly they become valuable to teams who want to let go of multi year deals for players we want, but that'll be next year, not now.
 
Thank you! I've been saying this about Harris, especially. If a team takes Harris they know they are doing us a favor and will want compensation. Its real simple, GM's know these guys limitations, its not some JazzFanz secret.
 
Bodhi said:
Thank you! I've been saying this about Harris, especially. If a team takes Harris they know they are doing us a favor and will want compensation. Its real simple, GM's know these guys limitations, its not some JazzFanz secret.
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I don't know about that. Harris has been horrible this season, but I highly doubt he's suddenly become a horrible player. I'm sure he's just not a good fit for the Jazz. Sure he's overpaid a bit, but I think some teams will be tempted to take the risk.
 
I think we'd see Harris play much better ball with Jefferson gone. He seems to thrive when we're running and moving the ball more. Jefferson is the antithesis of ball movement.
 
siromar said:
I don't know about that. Harris has been horrible this season, but I highly doubt he's suddenly become a horrible player. I'm sure he's just not a good fit for the Jazz. Sure he's overpaid a bit, but I think some teams will be tempted to take the risk.
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I have a feeling that if their TPE would work, the Lakers would take Harris right now. I'm really curious what happens by the trade deadline.
 
JJ Rage said:
I think we'd see Harris play much better ball with Jefferson gone. He seems to thrive when we're running and moving the ball more. Jefferson is the antithesis of ball movement.
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Last year I would agree with this statement, and to some extent there's some truth to it this season as well. However, Jefferson has been moving the ball a lot better this year. I actually thought Harris would break through this season if we saw Jefferson's passing and assist numbers go up. That hasn't happened.
 
siromar said:
I don't know about that. Harris has been horrible this season, but I highly doubt he's suddenly become a horrible player. I'm sure he's just not a good fit for the Jazz. Sure he's overpaid a bit, but I think some teams will be tempted to take the risk.
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Cool, I didn't say anything to the contrary. But if I'm trading with the Utah Jazz, as an opposing teams GM, I'm not giving them anything of real value based off what I'm seeing this year. Would you? If you know a guy is sick of his car and trying to sell it, even though it might fit just what you need, why are you going to pay him market or above for it? This isn't advanced economics here.
 
I wouldn't expect anything of value for either guy, honestly. I think the best move here for KOC is to get whatever you can for Big Al, draft a PG in the next draft, play out Harris' contract and develop Kanter/Favors.
 
JJ Rage said:
I wouldn't expect anything of value for either guy, honestly. I think the best move here for KOC is to get whatever you can for Big Al, draft a PG in the next draft, play out Harris' contract and develop Kanter/Favors.
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Playing out Harris is just as bad for this team as Al, IMO. Unless you move him to a backup role but I don't see Ty doing that. Both guys really need to be moved for this team to progress past what we see in front of us now.
 
There have been plenty of good posts in this thread, but I have two contributions:

1. There are always parallel cases elsewhere, and teams reaching their ceiling with their current rosters will make lateral moves with the hope that a change of scenery will help. For example, both Jefferson and Kevin Martin are limited players with sizable contracts that expire on the same year; I don't think a swap is out of the question, but we'd have to give up a little to get the deal done. Franklin modified a trade suggestion I made a few days ago so that the Jazz sent Jefferson and Bell (both of whom expire next year) for Martin and Thabeet (whose contract we'd be willing to take on)

2. Zach Randolph's performance last year has added a silver lining to Jefferson's name. I think if he were acquired by a team that was headed to the playoffs, something he desperately wants, then he'd be willing to play a more complementary role. As it is now, he's been set up to carry this team; that's not his ideal role.

(I also think there is a chance, slim as it may be, that Harris would play better without Jefferson on the team. I'd still expect him to be capped around 25 minutes a night, unless he's hot, with Watson for 20, and Burks for a handful.)
 
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one last small thing:

I'd actually like Jefferson as a 6th man. 25 minutes a night, carving up the opposing teams' 2nd unit.... his defensive woes masked some by the slight drop off of opposing talent. But, he's paid too much, and probably wouldn't take that role. Whatevar.
 
cctrackstar said:
I completely agree with the above thread. Though Harris and Jefferson are rather good players, they are overpaid for what they provide, and as such they are untradeable unless the trade involves us taking on something we don't want.
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.......I thought the owners lockout was suppose to fix this problem! Obviously, it did not. How is it the Jazz continue to make deals and sign players who's value is far below what they are making in salary??? It's like so many dummy homeowners who got sucked into the housing market years ago....and now owe twice as much on their mortgage than the house is worth!
 
I have read some really good trade ideas that I think other teams would jump at.

Let's start with the big a Jefferson - the bet scenario would bt atl. The need a big and a front line of smith horrors and Jefferson would be impressive. Only leaves them 1 year To figure it out. We get Marvin Williams who wants out and hinrich who I like but is past his prime. Williams is a decent shooter but leaves little to be desired about his defense but a decent pick up.

Portland would give a Jefferson trade a long look they need a center.
Gsw ditto
Washington could use him at the 4 but they are rebuilding so probably would pass.
Houston I feel would take him just because of mchale.
Orlando would consider a trade if the can keep Howard.
Miami would also but has nothing to offer.
Charlotte has a few pieces to offer like Augustin but we would have to take maggette's 2 yrs.
Maybe another team or 2 but there are a few teams that could use him who the jazz could get back in value.

Harris on the other hand I agree it will be a lot harder to move him.

Toronto is the first that comes to mind. Harris, cj and a second rounder would get us Calderon.
Portland liked Harris last year maybe a trade like Toronto for Felton.
Lakers would take him but have nothing to offer.
Charlotte part of the big a trade.
After that it is pretty slim pickings. But to e honest I would move him for a second rounder.
 
siromar said:
I don't know about that. Harris has been horrible this season, but I highly doubt he's suddenly become a horrible player. I'm sure he's just not a good fit for the Jazz. Sure he's overpaid a bit, but I think some teams will be tempted to take the risk.
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the problem with harris i think is he is not compatible with the style jazz want him to play. stay on the perirmeter and force feed jefferson and or millsap. he is a different style of point guard simple as that. whithout jefferson and millsap to some extent on the court with harris he is a different player
 
orangello said:
Harris and Jefferson are just not good enough to demand anything significant.

This is the reality of Harris and Jefferson in any possibly trade.
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I put a post on here and real gm offering Jefferson to Pacers for cap space so that Jazz could chase Wilson Chandler. Pacers fans declined. Says enough about Jefferson's value.
 
Bodhi said:
Cool, I didn't say anything to the contrary. But if I'm trading with the Utah Jazz, as an opposing teams GM, I'm not giving them anything of real value based off what I'm seeing this year. Would you? If you know a guy is sick of his car and trying to sell it, even though it might fit just what you need, why are you going to pay him market or above for it? This isn't advanced economics here.
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Well, it all depends on your situation. If you have a destination you really want to reach (e.g. playoffs/championship) and your car is in the shop for extended repairs (i.e. a key injury), then you'll definitely spend on a rental/replacement. Harris and Jefferson are solid players. Howard, Bell and even Miles have value as "insurance"/depth for contenders. Trading high salaries is never easy, so I think it much more likely a couple of the latter mentioned players get traded, just like Utah did with Brewer. It might take a big injury on a contending team to make someone go after Harris or Jefferson.
 
franklin said:
I put a post on here and real gm offering Jefferson to Pacers for cap space so that Jazz could chase Wilson Chandler. Pacers fans declined. Says enough about Jefferson's value.
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They have an all-star center in Hibbert and a 2-time all-star PF in David West. I'd decline that too.
 
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