Matthews: Jazz never made me an offer. I would have accepted less.
- Thread starter The O'Connor Cocktail
- Start date
All you said is that we should pretty up a car before selling it, and that no one understands it, because they are not Jews. That's completely different boat from where I was.
Besides, do you really want you power doubled? Do you know what 0x2 is?
Shaggy
Well-Known Member
Agreed. But you seem to be blaming KOC for that for which you have no knowledge of what those dealings were at the trade deadline and at the draft.
Hopper
Banned
This very same story states that "Until the very end, swingman Wesley Matthews thought the Utah Jazz would match the offer sheet put down on him last week." It goes on to quote Matthews himself as saying: ""I thought they would match...After all, they said I was a priority.''
When coupled with his previously stated determination to refrain from giving a "hometown discount," isn't he in fact saying that he would NOT have accepted a lesser offer? He "thought they would match," so why should he? And, of course, as previously noted, he doesn't even say he would have--he says he "might" have accepted a "fair" offer.
Then again, mebbe not, eh, Wesley?
He "thought" he could have his cake (max contract) and eat it (stay with the Jazz) too. Fraid not.
When coupled with his previously stated determination to refrain from giving a "hometown discount," isn't he in fact saying that he would NOT have accepted a lesser offer? He "thought they would match," so why should he? And, of course, as previously noted, he doesn't even say he would have--he says he "might" have accepted a "fair" offer.
Then again, mebbe not, eh, Wesley?
He "thought" he could have his cake (max contract) and eat it (stay with the Jazz) too. Fraid not.
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Sean
Well-Known Member
How about we just bomb the **** out of your pathetic country instead?
JJ Rage
Active Member
How many members here actually thought they'd match the offer? Like 4? You're a fool.
I WAS blaming KOC (and let's face it, he did mishandle Mathews, and didn't give us best chance to keep him by negotiating early), but once he finally got moving this Monday, he did deliver. Overall, he did a good job. He didn't give us best chance to get Wes, and had Cuban not been so cheap, Al may have been gone too, but the bottom line is, he did give us Al. He did find a good replacement for Wes. Also I thought from the beginning Hayward draft choice was good, and summer league showed that as well. As a result, overall, I think we are better team today than at the end of last year, and also have better future potential. Sure, KOC did some things wrong, but I am certainly not blaiming him now, that he managed one way or another to actually improve the team in my view.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Honestly, who the **** cares if he would have matched the offer. It's a clownshoes contract offered by a team with no GM that has an extraordinarily high chance of blowing up in their face. And honestly, what WAS the fair market price for Wes? I would have said 3 @ 9. So if a team with no GM wants to offer him 32 million dollars, there isn't any window to negotiate.
Would Wes really accept a lot less? I really don't know. Maybe not. Maybe just a little less. But the only way to know is to negotiate. And by that I mean make an offer, get counter offer, go back, etc... I do believe Wes that he never got an offer from the Jazz. I also believe him that he wanted to stay. But... Raja Bell is really not that bad of a replacement.
gomretat
Well-Known Member
Wes and his agent wanted the coin. His agent even admitted they were surprised at the offer from Portland so clearly they knew there was a risk with Utah not wanting to pay that much. If Wes wanted to come to Utah, all he had to do was call KOC and say this is the Portland offer but i will sign with Utah for less, given us a number, and we could have sealed the deal. WM took the deal worth the most which is his right. Acting hurt after the fact is bogus.
Shaggy
Well-Known Member
KOC gets double credit for making it happen. Dallas had the upper hand the whole time. They had exactly what Minnesota wanted. If I was the Minnesota I would have pushed hard for a deal with Dallas over Utah. I'll presume that Minnesota wanted to get Dampier and a couple of 1st round picks so they could turn around an trade Dampier again right before the trade deadline to acquire more draft picks. It didn't work out that way but would have been a great deal for Minnesota.
Edit: Actually now that I think about it I could be wrong about Dampier's contract. It's not guaranteed but it might kick in if he's on a roster once the season starts. So maybe Dallas didn't have the upper hand as much as I thought.
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
What's the point of Wes saying he would take less? To save some face in Utah to some naive fans who might actually believe him? To piss off his new team in making them to believe he isn't super thrilled to be there? I don't see a good reason for him to say anything but something like thanks Utah for giving me the shot.
I thought 4-16 would be fair, same deal as CJ got.
Dampier as a player has no value. His contract is not guaranteed though, so whoever gets him will just dump him right away and not pay a penny. In other words, he has exactly the same value as large TPE that we had. And considering we have better draft picks than Dallas, Dallas should have never been a front runner. It should not have been that close ... but we won in the end. I can't complain.
Shaggy
Well-Known Member
I think you missed the point. Dampier as player has very little vaule. But his contract or lack thereof was huge. Dampiers contract is more valuebale because even if they traded for him, they might/could re-trade him for more picks if they so choose. But with the TPE once the deal is done it goes away.
For example: Minnesota trades Al Jefferson for Dampier and 2 first round drafts picks. They keep Dampier on the roster until trade deadline and they then trade him to New York. New York wants more cap space so they give up another first round pick. ( Minny has 3 first round draft picks after everything is done)
If they do they deal with Utah they get 2 first round draft picks.
It's all hypothetical of course but you get my point? It really comes down to when or if Dampiers contract ever becomes guaranteed.
I get your point, and still it is not valid. Wolves are WELL under the CAP without Jefferson. They don't need Dampier to absorb any contract, then can flat out accept it with their CAP room. Even if they were not under CAP, they could use TPE they got from us to do exactly what you are proposing with Dampier. The bottom line is Dampier has the same value as TPE. Actually worse, because TPE is good for a year, and Damp's contract has to be terminated before start of season. No matter how you slice it, Dallas having Dampier does not give them any advantage of our TPE. If anything, TPE has the advantage here, as I explained before, plus we had better draft picks than Dallas.
For those pissing and moaning that the Jazz didn't make an offer, what offer do you thing Wesley would have taken without even looking at other teams? He even says that if the Jazz would have made an offer it would be fair and he might have taken it.
This to me screams that regardless of what Utah offered he and his agent would have run to every team in the league and said, "This is what Utah is offering me. Can you do better?"
No way he would have re-upped with Utah until he was shot down by every team in the league.
Utah would have been stupid to tender an offer because it would give Wes' camp bargaining power. As it happens Porty was dumb enough to offer way more than what he was worth. The Jazz dodged a bullet on this one.
Good luck Wesley. Don't let the door hit you on the *** on the way out. Enjoy the pine. Your *** is going to see a lot of it.
All this moaning about Wesley is truly incredible. The Jazz take an undrafted player, pay him 400+k and sign him for a year. He works hard, but doesn't play all that well at first, gets a chance because of injury and a trade, and becomes an honest good player, really turning it on in the playoffs. Jazz make it clear that resigning him is a top priority. His agent tells them that they are thinking MLE max. KOC says "wow, I guess you can find a team willing to pay that and then we'll talk." In the meantime, Matthews says the hometeam gets no discount. Portland, with an endless moneypit, makes an absurd offer with a special frontload to really screw Utah, but they probably honestly thought Utah would match. Matthews, thinking Utah would match, signs the offer without thinking about the actuality of Utah not matching. Utah, with his salary and cap implications would have forked over probably in excess of 15 million to keep Matthews this first year. To recap for the slow ones, Utah helps Matthews go from a 400000 undrafted player to a whopping 7mil/per, that's only an increase of 1800ish%, and the hometeam doesn't get a discount. I really wanted him to be here, but to put the blame on KOC is some sort of dumbassery.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Matthews seems to be having second thoughts, and well he should be. We'll see how he fares without Deron to assist on 80% of his shots. We'll see how he likes playing only 15 minutes a game behind Roy, and no there is no chance he gets SF time. Matthews will never have to worry about money again, but this guy is a true competitor, and he will learn to hate being a bench cheerleader for the prime if his career...again I don't really fault the guy, he is just a pawn in Portland's moronic bullying game.