Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Why?
Welcome back to Salt Lake - Mo Williams
- Thread starter The Midnight
- Start date
Why?
Brown Notes
Well-Known Member
I don't either. I predict the Mo love here will turn sour by December if he's still here.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
This was an excellent question that remains unanswered by Billy.
Billy's position makes the most sense if you fully reduce players and player management to the logic of ASSETS. Billy does offer a very strong argument along these lines. The problem is that basketball can't be managed like high finance. You've got to think about personalities (players, GMs, etc.) and assembling a TEAM that people (more personalities) want to watch as well as one that doesn't shackle your future goals.
I have zero doubt that KOC wanted and tried to get a pick too. I'm disappointed it didn't happen, but it doesn't make any sense to NOT give him the benefit of the doubt for trying to get what he obviously wanted.
Mo fits better than Harris as presently constituted. If KOC can deal Harris for assets because of the flexibility he created by executing this trade when he felt he needed to execute it, then I consider it a win all-around.
(but before I go any further with KOC love... he has to address Jefferson, at least).
bjunior
Well-Known Member
I predict that all the attention will be on Corbin (his rotations, game decisions etc) and BigAl if he's still here.
You have to stink badly to outperform those two guys, witch I doubt that Mo is the case.
Brown Notes
Well-Known Member
MW's strengths are supposed to be spot up shooting and 3s off the break. At least that's what I remember. Yet he sucked out loud paired with LeBruh in the playoffs. This team doesn't have a dynamic distributor. We don't pass very well. What's Mo gonna do here? I don't hate him, just he's not very good and is a poor fit. To my mind he's simply an expiring contract. IMO Harris is much better. Having a one man break is better than a spot up shooter that probably won't get many shots.
framer
Well-Known Member
Long time lurker, but riled up enough to finally make a comment.
Mo Williams is a &*^@**@ Godsend! I was ready to sell my soul for someone, ANYONE that could make a corner three with any consistancy. It was so bad that I would have considered bringing back Kyle Korver. So we get someone who can do that as a pg who will not park in front of Hayward or Burks, and some of you are complaining because we didn't get a second rounder? I swear some people want these 2nd round wastrels just so they can complain when vets are "stealing their playing time!!!!" We don't need a stinking 2nd rounder! We have two first round picks next year. We need quality vet roleplayers to match with our young talent. We just got that for free. We also have the bonus that if it doesn't work out, we still have many options.
Other points: DO you remember how much it sucked when we had to play a two point guard offense with Fisher. Yes, it sucked so bad we went to the Western Conference finals in one year of the experiment. When we lost Fisher's three point threat, we regressed dramatically. Having two or three legitimate three point threats is an absolute must!
Having Mo will HELP the young players dramatically! How are you supposed to learn to pass effectively out of the post when you are tossing the ball to Miles? In order to learn that skill you have to have confidence the person you kick out to will drain the shot. If you don't, that two on one contested looks better and beter. Having a threat of Williams and Hayward from distance will also loosen up the paint for the young bigs and clear a wider driving lane for Burks. Success breeds confidence.
When Miles and/or Harris were actually making their threes, the Jazz were mighty last year. When they couldn't hit, we got outclassed by even mediocre teams. Untill we develop younger talent that can hit the three effectively, we need to plug in veteran help that can get the Job done. Mo can do that and provides winning experience. I know many hate Fisher, but he did the same and we thrived.
And seriously people, unless you are coughing up Favors, Rondo is not, nor ever was, an option.
Mo Williams is a &*^@**@ Godsend! I was ready to sell my soul for someone, ANYONE that could make a corner three with any consistancy. It was so bad that I would have considered bringing back Kyle Korver. So we get someone who can do that as a pg who will not park in front of Hayward or Burks, and some of you are complaining because we didn't get a second rounder? I swear some people want these 2nd round wastrels just so they can complain when vets are "stealing their playing time!!!!" We don't need a stinking 2nd rounder! We have two first round picks next year. We need quality vet roleplayers to match with our young talent. We just got that for free. We also have the bonus that if it doesn't work out, we still have many options.
Other points: DO you remember how much it sucked when we had to play a two point guard offense with Fisher. Yes, it sucked so bad we went to the Western Conference finals in one year of the experiment. When we lost Fisher's three point threat, we regressed dramatically. Having two or three legitimate three point threats is an absolute must!
Having Mo will HELP the young players dramatically! How are you supposed to learn to pass effectively out of the post when you are tossing the ball to Miles? In order to learn that skill you have to have confidence the person you kick out to will drain the shot. If you don't, that two on one contested looks better and beter. Having a threat of Williams and Hayward from distance will also loosen up the paint for the young bigs and clear a wider driving lane for Burks. Success breeds confidence.
When Miles and/or Harris were actually making their threes, the Jazz were mighty last year. When they couldn't hit, we got outclassed by even mediocre teams. Untill we develop younger talent that can hit the three effectively, we need to plug in veteran help that can get the Job done. Mo can do that and provides winning experience. I know many hate Fisher, but he did the same and we thrived.
And seriously people, unless you are coughing up Favors, Rondo is not, nor ever was, an option.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
When a team 'regresses dramatically', usually they don't improve their season record by 3 wins. I don't think Im the only one who thinks that the 2008 Jazz team was probably the best one of the Deron era, regardless of the fact that we only got to the 2nd round. 2008, 2009 Lakers > 2007 Spurs, 2007 Warriors.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
You don't have to go back all the way to Fisher. Sloan played Deron and Maynor together quite a bit before Eric was traded with Harpring's contract.
I still believe KOC is really shopping Harris. And Dallas might be a landing spot if Deron stays with the Nets. Wouldn't be a bad scenario for Harris to return to where he put up some great numbers. But if he does stay, Harris and Mo can co-exist. Besides, each player will probably miss about 15 games; that's the career average for each.
calijazz
Winner of the 2011 Jazzfanz mock draft contest
With the how the Jazz are presently constituted, I think Mo Williams is actually a better fit than Harris. And I'm not a Harris hater either, I like his game too. But the Jazz's offense is now run through their bigs on the low block more so than pick-and-roll (like with Deron and Boozer). Mo keeps defenses honest with his shooting ability and gives Jefferson, Millsap, Favors, and Kanter more room to operate down low. Harris was inconsistent with his shooting last season. Teams don't fear his shooting like they do with Mo. And I think you entirely underestimating Mo's passing ability. Sure his assist numbers were down with the Clippers, but that was because he played a bulk of his minutes at the 2. If you look at when he ran the point in Milwaukee and Cleveland his assist numbers were actually better (3+ seasons over 6 APG) than Harris last season (5 APG). Not every team can have an elite PG that averages 10 APG like we did with D-Will. Mo's game has developed since he was last in Utah. He's a much better player now.
Brown Notes
Well-Known Member
I sure hope you're right.
CALJAZZFAN
Well-Known Member
Spot on. This was a good move, IMO. And... we gave up practically nothing, which is huge.
There are so many players better than Mo Wiliams who have come into the league since 2004.
But no, if you are KOC, you have got to bring back the exact same player who you let go in his rookie year just because that mistake is killing you every day. Never mind if that player would soon be 30, didn't exactly turn out to be a perennial all star after he left the Jazz(a decent role player at best) and is arguably not even all that better than what the Jazz currently have at PG.
And you wonder why the Jazz never get closer to winning a championship.
If the Jazz don't trade Harris for a solid vet at another position this moves doesn't make much sense.
You just have another combo guard(actually less of a PG and more of a scoring guard like Harris) who is even more undersized than Harris
But no, if you are KOC, you have got to bring back the exact same player who you let go in his rookie year just because that mistake is killing you every day. Never mind if that player would soon be 30, didn't exactly turn out to be a perennial all star after he left the Jazz(a decent role player at best) and is arguably not even all that better than what the Jazz currently have at PG.
And you wonder why the Jazz never get closer to winning a championship.
If the Jazz don't trade Harris for a solid vet at another position this moves doesn't make much sense.
You just have another combo guard(actually less of a PG and more of a scoring guard like Harris) who is even more undersized than Harris
He isn't an all star caliber player. Lets stop pretending that just because he made one all star team as a second injury substitute that he is a legit all star. Last I checked he was backing up 2 other PGs.
The fact that the Jazz were able to get something out of Memo's TPE is a win in itself. It could have easily gone to waste, but instead we got what we all have been screaming for: perimeter shooting.
calijazz
Winner of the 2011 Jazzfanz mock draft contest
If you think we're getting a better player than Mo Williams for free then you would be in fantasy land. And if you think Mo Williams is undersized...than 80% of NBA PG's are undersized. He's 6-1.
I think VJ is underestimating the value of MO -- yes, a borderline All-Star as a second round pick. But he furnishes something the Jazz lack, a guy who can create his own shot and actually score, something Harris can't do nearly as well. To me, MO fits more in the role of a Jason Terry 6th man. I would like the Jazz to move Harris, Earl, and one of the bigs for a young PG and a SF or defensive center. I'd love to see AK back if the price is right too, and please, no Howard!
calijazz
Winner of the 2011 Jazzfanz mock draft contest
Averaged 17 PPG, 6 APG on 48% FG and 38% 3P that year. Seems pretty legit to me. Not saying he is a perennial All-Star but he has certainly shown he is capable of having that kind of season. And the last time you checked would be incorrect. He was the primary backup 1 and 2. Played 28 MPG. There wasn't exactly chopped liver playing in front of him (CP3).
More importantly, someone who can score in the half-court from the perimeter on a consistent basis. We may lose fast break capability, but our half-court will be much more efficient with better spacing.
He isn't a true PG first of all and secondly 80% of PGs in this league aren't necessarily elite either.