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AK - Do we want him back?

write4u said:
Most of the AK haters are the ones who became Jazz fans after they got Deron, so they saw what happened to AK after that, which had a lot to do with Deron and Jerry siding with Deron over AK. However, since we found out what Deron was really like, the dark side of Deron that we didn't know about at the time, you would think these AK haters would have a more balanced picture of him. I watched a lot of those Euro games. AK is still a player with lots of skills we could use. The dorks with the whiny bitch comments are whiny bitches on here themselves -- look who's calling the kettle black.
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I'm a Jazz fan going back to the days of Ben Poquette, John Drew, Ricky Green, etc. And yes, I'm an AK hater. In fact, I was one of the first on the old board to suggest he be traded, and got flamed for a full season before others came around to the "dark side." AK supporters are talking like we'd be signing the AK of 2003-05. But we're not. He's not a shot-blocker any more; he's not a good man-on-man defender. He shoots 30% on his 3's. OK, he's a pretty good passer and gets into passing lanes on the defensive end with those long arms. But what position does he play? He gets killed by POWER forwards - and there sure are a lot of them now in the WC. And he's just not quick enough to guard SF's. They either drive by him (and about 1.1 times per game he recovers to block a shot) or they just step back and take the jumper since he plays so far off of them on defense.

Yeah, I'm angry. I'm angry becuase he had the potential to be one of the best players in the NBA. And he just stopped working to get better. When Larry H. handed him that big contract, he said AK wasn't a MAX player yet, but he would be. Well, he got the first part of the sentence correct. No, it's not AK's fault for taking a huge contract. It's AK's fault for spending summers doing very little basketball-wise, claiming he had worked on his physique and shooting and then coming to camp looking exactly the same and clanging shots off the rim. Deron may be an egotistical SOB, but he was right...who should you give the ball too, a guy who launches up prayers or someone who works on his game and shoots >50%?

And i don't caer how much you're ignored on offense. For $17M you better play the best damn defense you can, not pout and admit you slack off on that end because you don't get enough touches.

Not only does a 12/5 player who would miss 20 games per season NOT make the team better, there's not a chance in hell a Miller would ever allow AK to rejoin the team.
 
billyshelby said:
Is there really anyone who thinks Marvin Williams is better than AK?
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It's not unreasonable to think that a 6'9" 245-lb, 26-year-old Marvin Williams (who shot 39% from the 3 last season, has a reputation for defense, and rebounded & scored at a similar rate as AK in his last season) just might be better than a 31-year-old Kirilenko who has been playing I'm-a-top-3-option Euroball for the last year and has a recent NBA history of back problems and undermotivation. Kiri has MWill on assists & blocks convincingly--and that's about it.

And as MW is still in his theoretical peak years and gets away from a bad situation, he could definitely be one who benefits from the Jazz system and fan support--if he chooses to accept both--making Marvin's ceiling soooo much higher than Kirilenko's, who has more downside from age, attitude, back problems, and World of Warcraft than Marvin seems to have.
 
billyshelby said:
Is there really anyone who thinks Marvin Williams is better than AK?
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Marvin is a better shooter. He's also a better overall defender. And he never whined about his role or getting enough touches. And yes, his coach reportedly rode him as hard as Sloan did AK.

I miss the comedy of AK taking a crazy three before the offense even has a chance to get set up (and hitting nothing but air). Or watching him flail his arms wildly as he drives the lane, hoping the ref miraculously calls a foul to bail him out. There was nothing more amusing - or frustrating - than watching whichever defender played AK (or Ronnie B.) just sag off waiting to double down low and daring those guys to take the 15-18 ft'er, knowing it was such a low percentage shot for Utah.
 
I was wondering how the hell this discussion was still going on, then I saw that write4u still existed, was still nuts, and still desperately clung to his absurd, failed logic.
 
billyshelby said:
I don't think I did, but you can correct me. AK is not nearly enough a "bad citizen" that it would ever be worth replacing him with good citizen Williams. AK is just a much better player than Williams. Marbury or Dwight aren't fair examples. AK never disrupted a team like they did.
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What a compliment.
 
People make some good points, and I agree especially with the one about MW having a higher ceiling and having potential -- that is spot on. AK is not going to get better; I still think the haters underrate him and focus on his flaws / weaknesses. I could cite just as many situations where AK made a clutch steal or three to seal or win a ball game. The hate prevents your objectivity. You're still back in the glory days when AK's potential was pointing towards NBA superstardom. Well, the posters are right. He didn't do the necessary work, and his play not only leveled off but fell off, and people are still upset about that. I was too. But you can't argue that AK is still a good player who could add something to this team. The Jazz have decided to move on with MW. So, let's hope this will be a good move and MW will realize his potential with the Jazz.
 
SLC Dunk did an analysis where Marvin Williams was certainly better than Miles or Howard, but worse than Kirilenko.

https://www.slcdunk.com/2012/7/2/31...ms-josh-howard-c-j-miles-and-andrei#storyjump

However, I don't know what Kirilenko will be asking for in terms of salary, and our need is less dire now. Kirilenko would still improve our team, and is still better than marvin Wiliams, but I don't know if he would improve it enough to be worth what it would cost to sign him.
 
One Brow said:
SLC Dunk did an analysis where Marvin Williams was certainly better than Miles or Howard, but worse than Kirilenko.https://www.slcdunk.com/2012/7/2/31...ms-josh-howard-c-j-miles-and-andrei#storyjump
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And then there's other factors like salary (which you mentioned), our current cap figure, playing time for all these players, intangibles (AK is like absolute zero here), health, and just plain ol' common sense. What the **** do we need to keep bringing up AK for? Anyone not high on PCP knows that AK underachieved for the last five or so years of his contract. Period. End of ****ing story. So why the hell do we continue to bring this Mary up?
 
Wes Mantooth said:
..., intangibles (AK is like absolute zero here),...
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The great thing about the notion of "intangibles" is that, when some moron makes a statement as completely stupid as the statement you made, there is no such thing as objective evidence that can be used to support or rebut it.
 
One Brow said:
The great thing about the notion of "intangibles" is that, when some moron makes a statement as completely stupid as the statement you made, there is no such thing as objective evidence that can be used to support or rebut it.
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You're correct. Just common ****ing sense. Something you lack. So thanks for supporting my statement. Now get back on your knees for AK.
 
The one area that I also would have concern about is AK being injury prone. The reason for his decline wasn't just his inability to do the work. He also had a series of injuries because of his all-out hustle play that endeared him to us in the first place. So, I think his decline had to do with a number of factors. Despite this he's still good enough to be named MVP in the Euroleague, the second best pro league next to the NBA. But let's root for Marvin to reach his potential and then we can all be happy. The chances of him doing that, however, are probably no better than AK returning to his All-Star form.
 
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