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Would anybod here take a do-over on the 2011 draft?

I feel the jazz had one of the better drafts in that draft. Other then that other C that Tor. picked (because I no nothing about him) the jazz picked the best value they could, and Burks at 12 could be a top ten value pick in that draft.
 
BluesRocker said:
Brandon Knight looking pretty good so far. We could use a future point to grow with right now. Instead we have a glut of bigs.
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Just made a post in the other thread which I'll copy below.

Knight? Really?
He had a disappointing season last year. Shooting-wise, he made CJ look like a sniper.
I haven't tracked his summer league stats, but he wasn't impressive against Ahearn or Stockton in Game #1.

As for the PF's in the draft (Morris brothers, Faried), I don't think any of them are upgrades over Favors and Millsap. I know you say "take the best player available." But when you have two excellent players at a position, then you consider the holes on your team if there are others in a need postion who are close in talent.
 
It will be disappointing if Kanter becomes just a backup. That would seem a waste of a #3 pick on face value. I still say you draft him or Jonas, though. The old adage holds true: "if you're going to make a mistake, make it big." Of the players drafted 3-7:

#3 Enes Kanter (C) - 5 and 4 in 13 mins.
#4 Tristan Thompson (PF) - 8 and 6.5 in 24 mins.
#5 Jonas Valanciunas (C) - did not play in NBA
#6 Jan Veseky (F) - 5 and 4 in 19 mins
#7 Bismack Biyombo (PF/C) - 5 and 6 in 23 mins.

His numbers compare favorably to the bigs drafted right after. His PT is lower due to the presence of Al, Millsap and Favors. Most of the others are on terrible teams and are thrown in immediately. No, there wasn't a Cousins in this draft. Look back over the past several drafts and you only see a few centers other than Cousins who had decent impact their first year: like Lopez and Horford. I wouldn't mind if Kanter became a Noah-type player. It took Joakim 3 years to become a double-double guy. I think Kanter probably averages about 8/7 in 20-25 mins/per this season. Coincidentally, those are very close to Noah's 2nd year stats.

Just for giggles, let's recall the next four players drafted: Picks 8-10 are all PG's (Knight, Walker, Fredette). I'm not going to bother listing their stats. Both Brandon and Kemba struggled shooting the ball their rookie seasons and didn't impress with their assist numbers, either. And we all know Sacramento really reached with The Jimmer. Would Utah be better off with one of those guys? I'm not comfortable with any as "franchise PG's." Of the three, maybe Kemba is the best as a "poor-man's Harris." But all seem to really be undersized SG's, not pure points.

Then you have Klay Thompson and Utah's second pick, Alec Burks. IMO, either would have been a fine choice at #12. Klay's a better shooter, Alec is more athletic and can get to the hoop. Couldn't go wrong with either, IMO.

Conclusion: none of the PG's available at #3 appears to be worth a high lottery pick. It would have been a waste to reach for one. #12 was the perfect spot to pick up a wing as we got one of the two best at that spot. And the bigs were a toss-up. No one has really stood out yet. Perhaps in another 2 years, we can look back and see which ones panned out and which ones are complete busts.
 
I liked Jonas at 3 and Leonard or Montijunas at 12. But what the heck do I know?

I saw Kanter beating up Jonas, but I thought Jonas had more skills and showed more development. Jonas looked longer, more athletic and understood the game more. I liked the idea of him playing overseas (rather than riding the jazz bench) for 1 or 2 years, even if there was a fear that he would stay overseas. The NBA is not a good place to develop young bigs, and paying a guy 3.5 million to 'develop' seems like a waste to me. I thought that as Jonas body filled in and he got bigger he would be much much better than Kanter. I also thought Jonas could play the high post or pick and roll better and so would compliment Favors better. If Jazz did not have Favors I might have placed Kanter ahead of Jonas. Hope I was wrong.

Burks didn't do much for me because he looked skinny, needed the ball in his hands to do anything, and everyone said he couldn't hit the three. I still like Monti and Leonard. But I think at 12 it depends on how the team uses the player and Burks probably has the best chance of those three to do anything on the Jazz.
 
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Hotttnickkk said:
That's my point though, we're never going to take Klay Thompson at 3. Nobody was going to take Klay Thompson at 3.

Can you come up with a more realistic example?
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I dont need a more realistic example, because the point still stands. Anyone I say, you will just say no we wouldnt have picked them. That isnt the point to the discussion. What if KOC was torn between Kanter and Knight. So say the wind blew in a different direction that day of the draft, and it changed Koc's mood. And then he took Knight instead. Then Clevland might take Kanter. Then what if they do? Then Thompson slides......and on and on. So with all that happening maybe Detroit likes Burks and takes him because the missed out on Knight, because they were torn between Knight and Burks. You see? Not every team has every player rated the same at the time of the draft.
 
BluesRocker said:
I dont need a more realistic example, because the point still stands. Anyone I say, you will just say no we wouldnt have picked them. That isnt the point to the discussion. What if KOC was torn between Kanter and Knight. So say the wind blew in a different direction that day of the draft, and it changed Koc's mood. And then he took Knight instead. Then Clevland might take Kanter. Then what if they do? Then Thompson slides......and on and on. So with all that happening maybe Detroit likes Burks and takes him because the missed out on Knight, because they were torn between Knight and Burks. You see? Not every team has every player rated the same at the time of the draft.
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So we end up with Knight and either Thompson or Burks?

At this point in time, I don't think we can say whether we're better off with Knight or Kanter. Knight may become a very good PG. Kanter may become a very good center. What I do know is decent centers are a lot harder to find than serviceable PG's. So even if Kanter is a 25 min/per sub putting up 10/10, I'd much rather have those numbers than a 15/6 PG who shoots 40%/30%.
 
Jonas will be interesting. He'll come in more ready than Kanter, so I could see after a few months into the season people saying that we made the wrong choice, but only time will tell who's better. I know Thompson went ahead of Burks, but I still really, really like Thompson.

It's purely hypothetical, but what combo sounds better?

Kanter/Burks
or
Valanciunas/Thompson
 
My guys (that I knew we could get) were JV, Burks and Leonard. I like Kanter a lot better having seen him play. Big beef with him was an almost total lack of verifiable information. All there really was on Enes was some hoop summit stuff, and PKMs anecdotal comments. This board was probably more informed on him than most pundits.

Doing it over I'd probably still go with JV and have a hard time deciding between Burks/Leonard.
 
write4u said:
Jonas, Vucevic, the Morris brothers, and Faried, all would've been better options as bigs than Kanter, or so it looks at this time.
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The Jonas thing is to be determined, but you really think that drafting another PF/SF combo player was the way to go? The Morris brothers are in my opinion average role players. Now even average big man role players have value but average NBA centers have a lot more value. As for Faried, he is athletic and his works really hard. But you cannot teach size and he doesn't have it. Also if 4 years of college hasn't taught him to shot I don't know what will.
 
All about JV. But as a practical matter, it would have served us better to have a JV starting his rookie contract this year rather than Enes on year 2. That won't mean much if Enes is better than JV. And it will mean less if they both turn out to be NBA journeymen.
 
billyshelby said:
All about JV. But as a practical matter, it would have served us better to have a JV starting his rookie contract this year rather than Enes on year 2. That won't mean much if Enes is better than JV. And it will mean less if they both turn out to be NBA journeymen.
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I think this is the only real argument: do you draft Enes or JV? And as you said, we just don't know yet what the upside is for each player.
 
Beantown said:
You would take Faried over Kanter?
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Maybe?

Im certain Farried is a bad ***. Kanter, I really have no idea where he ends up. He's got a lot of good things about him, and bad. I go back and forth with him right now. I guess what really scares me is he isnt very athletic, and its a stretch to think it will get better. We are hoping he turns out really smart and is hustle player.

I wanna see what he can do cause we have seen some flashes, but we have also seen some things that are concerning.

I liked the pick at the time as well. And Im still on board, but this wagon is getting kind of wabblely.

Just checking.in where we are all at on him now.

But ya, I would love Farried on our team right now. He is a fun player to watch. He plays is *** off and he is a freak athletically, with skills. He isnt just garbage guy. But he is short, so that is the concern. But as bench guy, hell ya.
 
Could you have milsapp and faried on the same team - both good players at PF, but undersized, which gets shown up agst quality opposition?

The beauty of Kanter was that he stood up agst bynum and the lakers, which boozer never did! I thought that was a real good sign.
 
BluesRocker said:
I dont need a more realistic example, because the point still stands. Anyone I say, you will just say no we wouldnt have picked them. That isnt the point to the discussion. What if KOC was torn between Kanter and Knight. So say the wind blew in a different direction that day of the draft, and it changed Koc's mood. And then he took Knight instead. Then Clevland might take Kanter. Then what if they do? Then Thompson slides......and on and on. So with all that happening maybe Detroit likes Burks and takes him because the missed out on Knight, because they were torn between Knight and Burks. You see? Not every team has every player rated the same at the time of the draft.
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Yeah well it's an unrealistic point - is what I'm saying.

You're saying someone will take Knight or Thompson at #3? That's an unrealistic proposition. There's no way we take either Thompson or Knight at #3. Or would anyone else given the talent level still up for grab such as Kanter & Valanciunus.

I'm still waiting for a realistic scenario from you.
 
Keep in mind that there was a large percentage of this board who would have sold their soul for Biyombo, although none of them will admit it now. Kanter was the right choice, he is just brutally young and raw. Not raw like Biyombo, but inexperienced in his feel for competitition. He's barely 20. There have been only a handful of players ever who were fully NBA ready at that age. Also keep in mind that Summer league is not a great showcase for bigs. I was at the infamous Tag v. Timmy RMR game. Sat next to some San Antonio fans. A few would have traded him for Tag right on the spot. Don't be those guys. BTW Timmy had 4 years of college.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Yeah well it's an unrealistic point - is what I'm saying.

You're saying someone will take Knight or Thompson at #3? That's an unrealistic proposition. There's no way we take either Thompson or Knight at #3. Or would anyone else given the talent level still up for grab such as Kanter & Valanciunus.

I'm still waiting for a realistic scenario from you.
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Nevermind. You are like a untrained dog. I cant even get through what I am saying to you.
 
There were several people here that would have been fine selecting Knight at 3. It would have been a reach, but not an unthinkable one.
 
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