Is Millsap worth $10m a year?

[freakazoid]

To me they are paying him $12 for taking only a two year deal. Maybe he couldve gotten $9 a year for 4 years somewhere else. Nets didn't want to give 4 years so they overpaid and gave him $12 a year for 2. It doesn't do anything to set the market for Millsap, unless Millsap wants to take a 2 year deal.

I would probably agree with this, except for most players, it comes down to one thing. I'm worth more than that guy. They don't want to hear the reasons why they should be willing to accept less. Sap already felt disrespected the last time around, and outside of overpaying him, I don't see any chance the two sides agree on an extension. I guess we'll see just how much our FO wants to hang on to him, but I think fans are dreaming if they think Sap's going to agree to 10 per.

 

[franklin]

I just checked into Sap's stats last season. He had 11 games with 10 or fewer points, compared to 2 for Al (the first and last games only). The Jazz weren't especially good when Sap scored over 20 points--9 &10. The wins tended to be against non-playoff teams.

The Jazz were 16-11 when Big Al went for more than 20 points. Jefferson doesn't disappear, has more big games, has big games against good and bad opponents, and the Jazz win when he has big games. Tough decision here, really.

Of course, I'd sell Kanter in a heartbeat and stick with Favors-Jefferson-Sap. It's a no brainer between Sap and Jefferson though--only a delusional fanboy would say otherwise.

 

[Stifle Tower]

They aren't paying him $12 to reward him for the past, no one does that. To me they are paying him $12 for taking only a two year deal. Maybe he couldve gotten $9 a year for 4 years somewhere else. Nets didn't want to give 4 years so they overpaid and gave him $12 a year for 2. It doesn't do anything to set the market for Millsap, unless Millsap wants to take a 2 year deal.

True. With the punitive tax going into effect, teams are going ALL IN for the next 2 years. Then there will be a ton of FA's on the market, and a lot of teams looking to rid themselves of aging, high-salaried guys.

Millsap at a Wallace-type contract would be ok (4/$40). Millsap for 2/$25 would also be ok (higher than Humphries). Giving Paul a 2-yr deal would allow another year for Kanter to develop and another season for the Jazz to acquire and develop a 3rd big. With probably two 1sts next year, Utah could pick up a young 4/5.

I really think nothing gets done on a Millsap contract until next year. Right now, Paul has some bargaining power by using the Wallace, Humphries and other contracts as comparisons. I don't see the same type of money being thrown around next year. There will be fewer teams with money to spend, and more looking towards the high tax years. The chances of Millsap getting an inflated, multi-year deal are slim. Of course, we also need to judge attitude. If Paul is unhappy with $10M, then let him leave.

Also, there are advantages to making Paul wait. Utah can extend other offers up to their cap next summer. Once Paul (and MO) sign, that likely puts Utah over the cap, meaning the highest they could offer a FA would only be the MLE, same as every other team.

 

[nightmare3983]

Also, there are advantages to making Paul wait. Utah can extend other offers up to their cap next summer. Once Paul (and MO) sign, that likely puts Utah over the cap, meaning the highest they could offer a FA would only be the MLE, same as every other team.

Well said. An ideal situation would involve the Jazz signing an impact free agent or two and THEN re-signing Millsap and Williams. The key is coming to an agreement with them before they get deals with other teams.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I just checked into Sap's stats last season. *stats that are really a stretch to fit a narrative*

*Finishes with final troll statement*

You should watch more games. And I'm still waiting for examples of wings that are being given away (that are more worthy of playing than what we already have/top 5 talents).

 

[franklin]

Also, there are advantages to making Paul wait. Utah can extend other offers up to their cap next summer. Once Paul (and MO) sign, that likely puts Utah over the cap, meaning the highest they could offer a FA would only be the MLE, same as every other team.

Well said. An ideal situation would involve the Jazz signing an impact free agent or two and THEN re-signing Millsap and Williams. The key is coming to an agreement with them before they get deals with other teams.

That's not how the CBA works. The Jazz will have a cap hold that's probably higher than what Millsap will actually get. They could very well have more cap room after coming to terms with Sap than before.

 

[NUMBERICA]

That's not how the CBA works. The Jazz will have a cap hold that's probably higher than what Millsap will actually get. They could very well have more cap room after coming to terms with Sap than before.

Correct. Otherwise, this would give teams an unfair advantage if they possess Bird Rights. You have to pay to keep those.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Millsap's cap hold will be 150% of his salary this year, which is interesting, since I'm unsure if it'll be the actual amount he's paid or his yearly salary that affect the cap. If it's the latter, his cap hold will about $12.9 M and if it's the former, it's $10.8 M. Were I to guess, I would thing the cap hold will be 12.9.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Well said. An ideal situation would involve the Jazz signing an impact free agent or two and THEN re-signing Millsap and Williams. The key is coming to an agreement with them before they get deals with other teams.

Not a problem with Mo. He wants to remain here. KOC could talk in generalties about length and amount and come to an understanding. Another important note is that by next summer Jazz will have added 2-3 players via the draft. If Utah gets a lottery pick from GS and ends up with a promising big, maybe the Jazz let Paul just walk...if he demands too much. Jazz will also see how much Kanter and Favors progress. This may sound crazy, but with Favors wanting to be a 4, and Kanter still developing, it might be of more benefit to re-sign Al, then work in a rookie or FA PF who can play 10 mins as needed. Maybe that's even Evans as the backup PF.

 

[Stifle Tower]

That's not how the CBA works. The Jazz will have a cap hold that's probably higher than what Millsap will actually get. They could very well have more cap room after coming to terms with Sap than before.

Oh, you're right. Well, if Millsap and his uncle can't reach an agreement, then we need to "Deron" him.
Or, KOC can always go out on the FA market next summer and find alternate solutions at PF. Then he tells Paul to either sign whatever deal he's been offered, or Utah is going to renounce his rights and sign a FA.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

To be honest, the Jazz are going to have to renounce a lot of guys to get a bunch of cap space.

Assuming they renounce the guys they currently have cap holds on like Kirilenko and Ostertag (yes, there's a cap hold on Greg Ostertag currently) then they still have a whole bunch of cap holds which likely will take them over the cap. Let's look.

Guys under contract:

The four rookies=$16.167 M
Marvin=$7.5 M
Evans~$1.85 M

$25.517 M Around $35 M off projected cap.

Cap holds:

Millsap~13 M
Jefferson=max 35% of cap. Projected 21 M
Mo=12.75 M
Watson=3.8 M (Negligible, probably. All other contracts [Carroll, Tinsley {plus any other one year deals Jazz may do at the minimum this off season}] are definitely negligible and easily renounced. I won't even include this one in the final total.)

That's 58.75 M in total cap holds. Over the cap, and then some. Renounce Jefferson, and it's still 37+ M, which puts the Jazz over the cap. Extending or resigning Millsap for $10 M will only drop that number a small bit, about 3 M, so Millsap's contract situation really doesn't affect the Jazz too much. Mo Williams and Al Jefferson have more influence since they're not going to get near the money their cap holds have unlike Millsap, who will be closer.

 

[Growlor]

This may sound crazy, but with Favors wanting to be a 4, and Kanter still developing, it might be of more benefit to re-sign Al, then work in a rookie or FA PF who can play 10 mins as needed.

Forget what Favors wants... Which position would he be most effective in? Playing the 5 next to Sap or playing the 4 next to Al?

 

[franklin]

Millsap's cap hold will be 150% of his salary this year, which is interesting, since I'm unsure if it'll be the actual amount he's paid or his yearly salary that affect the cap. If it's the latter, his cap hold will about $12.9 M and if it's the former, it's $10.8 M. Were I to guess, I would thing the cap hold will be 12.9.

I think $12.9mm is a safe assumption considering how these loaded contracts count cap-wise.

Oh, you're right. Well, if Millsap and his uncle can't reach an agreement, then we need to "Deron" him.
Or, KOC can always go out on the FA market next summer and find alternate solutions at PF. Then he tells Paul to either sign whatever deal he's been offered, or Utah is going to renounce his rights and sign a FA.

I've said a few times how easy it would be to acquire replacement bigs. I know it's not popular but Scola at $3.5mm for 3 years is an absolute steal. If you can add pieces like that while acquiring solid wings you could build a deep team. I'd still rather resign Millsap and Jefferson to reasonable contracts though and use Kanter, GSW pick, and the Jazz' own pick (traded on draft night per rules) to surround Jefferson-Millsap-Favors with shooters and let it ride.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Bear in mind this is the Nets we're talking about. They should probably be playing Wallace as a 4 instead of whatever the **** they're trying to do now. If they need or want to trade Humphries in the next two years, they're then trying to trade a net-negative asset. So what now, they're going to start Wallace as a 3 and only have 2 players to stretch the floor?

But if all things are equal, if Humphries is worth $12 then Millsap's worth $14. I wouldn't pay that, I'm just saying.

Two year contract, he would probably get at most 8-9 a year if he was looking for a 4 year deal.

 

[Scorpjazz]

I just checked into Sap's stats last season. He had 11 games with 10 or fewer points, compared to 2 for Al (the first and last games only). The Jazz weren't especially good when Sap scored over 20 points--9 &10. The wins tended to be against non-playoff teams.

The Jazz were 16-11 when Big Al went for more than 20 points. Jefferson doesn't disappear, has more big games, has big games against good and bad opponents, and the Jazz win when he has big games. Tough decision here, really.

Of course, I'd sell Kanter in a heartbeat and stick with Favors-Jefferson-Sap. It's a no brainer between Sap and Jefferson though--only a delusional fanboy would say otherwise.

Cant rep yet, but would if I could...

 

[vj_74]

I just checked into Sap's stats last season. He had 11 games with 10 or fewer points, compared to 2 for Al (the first and last games only). The Jazz weren't especially good when Sap scored over 20 points--9 &10. The wins tended to be against non-playoff teams.

The Jazz were 16-11 when Big Al went for more than 20 points. Jefferson doesn't disappear, has more big games, has big games against good and bad opponents, and the Jazz win when he has big games. Tough decision here, really.

Of course, I'd sell Kanter in a heartbeat and stick with Favors-Jefferson-Sap. It's a no brainer between Sap and Jefferson though--only a delusional fanboy would say otherwise.

But then, Millsap is the "best player" on this team by a mile according to some experts here. So facts dont matter

 

[TheSilencer1313]

I think $12.9mm is a safe assumption considering how these loaded contracts count cap-wise.



I've said a few times how easy it would be to acquire replacement bigs. I know it's not popular but Scola at $3.5mm for 3 years is an absolute steal. If you can add pieces like that while acquiring solid wings you could build a deep team. I'd still rather resign Millsap and Jefferson to reasonable contracts though and use Kanter, GSW pick, and the Jazz' own pick (traded on draft night per rules) to surround Jefferson-Millsap-Favors with shooters and let it ride.

Let me get this straight.....
You'd rather re-sign Jefferson to another mucho backloaded contract, than keep Kanter to see what he can do off of a rookie contract??

I'm lolzing all over the place here.

I agree with re-signing Millsap.... but come on, re-signing Jefferson and trading Kanter for more shooters when the guy won't pass to his shooters??

 

[write4u]

If KHump is worth $12 mill, then Millsap is worth at least $15 -- not saying I'd pay it, but just for comparison.

 

[green]

Any player that gets one page for every million he makes, is worth it.

p.s. good point write....

 

[franklin]

Let me get this straight.....
You'd rather re-sign Jefferson to another mucho backloaded contract, than keep Kanter to see what he can do off of a rookie contract??

I'm lolzing all over the place here.

I agree with re-signing Millsap.... but come on, re-signing Jefferson and trading Kanter for more shooters when the guy won't pass to his shooters??

I realize you're playing up this whole vampire schtick, but isn't acting like you've been in a grave for 3 years taking it a bit too serious?