Mormon Temple ceremony.
- Thread starter Siro
- Start date
I still think Juanita Brooks' books about Mountain Meadows and John D. Lee represent serious, professional scholarship. She was a member of the LDS Church, and lived in St. George, where after publishing her historical research the local Mormons ostracized her. But she stood by her facts nevertheless.
When Brigham Young received word, and a request for instruction on the standoff at Mountain Meadows, he sent word immediately "Let them go". But the horseback messenger got back too late.
The immigrants had poisoned wells along their way in Utah, some cattle and Indians had died or gotten sick from their mischief. They had mocked the Mormons along the way with provocative boasts about participating in Haun's Mill and other Missouri atrocities, and had boasted they were going to California to gather an army to come back and help the federal army that was marching on Utah with orders to kill the Mormons from President Buchanan. All Utah was in a panic of war, Salt Lake was being prepared for evacuation into the southern mountains near the Colorado river.
Juanita Brooks adduced evidence that suggested a local southern Utah Mormon leader gave the order to detain and kill the adult members of the wagon train. But the local Indians were also wanting to do that, and couldn't be persuaded otherwise. John D. Lee, who ultimately was blamed and tried and executed for it, had plead against the attack, but was overruled by the leader, the early head of the Hinckley Utah folks. The LDS leading families in Cedar City and Harmony were also on the side of killing. It was John D. Lee's pleading that got the children spared, and that fact was the first one to emerge that persuaded the national press and public that whites had been involved.
When a non-Mormon jury acquitted John D. Lee, the national press was outraged. There were calls for Brigham Young to be taken in and executed. In response to this, Brigham Young and other Mormons agreed that John D. Lee should be re-tried. . . . anyone ever hear of the Constitution bar against double jeopardy???? against people being tried more than once for a capital crime????---- and the non-LDS court personnel accommodated this unconstitutional re-trial. This time, a jury compose of only Mormons returned the guilty verdict.
Anyone with an ounce of fair mindedness would deal with the whole thing as in the context of actual declared war against the Mormons, and involving persons who were self-declared combatants in this war, and treat it as such. The anti-Mormon rhetoric is unjustified, as unjustified as the massacre of Mormon women and children at Haun's Mill was under the Missouri governor's declared "Extermination Order" which called for summarily killing all Mormons in the State of Missouri.
Some might criticize Brigham Young for his failure to stand up for John D. Lee, as John D. Lee did later in his "Confessions" book where he essentially became an anti-Mormon himself, but the plain fact is nobody could make peace for the Mormons, and it was John D. Lee whose blood the anti-Mormons were howling for.
Didn't apply to state and territorial governments until the 14th Amendment.
Even now, you can be acquitted in a state court and tried in a federal court for basically the same crime (perhaps not the same charge, I'm not sure there).
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Good point.
So did Rockwell ever kill any Indians? What were his motives, cold blood or self defense?
Did any Indians ever attack Rockwell? What were their motives? Were they trying to rob, rape, pillage, or to defend against what they felt like his trespassing on their native homelands?
Evidence please.
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CONAN
Well-Known Member
No, you said the LDS controls SLC. I'm calling BS on that. Now if you want to say there was influence that's fine. But that's not even close to the same thing.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
I wonder why that is.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Neither was I. Shows how little I care about other religions unlike some mud-slinging tools.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
You are outstupiding PW in this thread. I did not know such things were possible.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Then it really hurts.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Especially on this board.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
That actually makes more sense to me. Ex-Mormons are the worst haters out there. They quit the religion but they can't resist attacking it. That's some pathetic bitter **** there.
I don't like this thread?
Shows how uninformed you are. To bad that does not stop you from talking. Thank you for removing doubt.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
You ever stop to wonder why so many exmormons are bitter about the church?
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Nope. I know exactly why they'd want to. The church can be a fantastic environment for some people. For others it can be a nightmare. Somehow both sides seem to forget this.
EDIT- I was raised mormon myself and my still mormon family are largely very happy in the church, but it just wasn't for me.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Thanks man, same to you.
That's true of pretty much any group that demands a high degree of loyalty. ex-JWs are far more bitter than ex-Mormons, AFAICT. then there are ex-ESTers, ex-Randians, etc.
The church removed them in the 1990s I believe. Wonder if some of the mormons calling posting of this video offensive supported the showing of the Mohammad video that caused all the ruckus in the middle east? I certainly remembering a lot of republicans defending the posting because of freedom of speech issues.