How are we going to score without Al?

[Brown Notes]

If they cut, he will find them? LMAO. Okay, that happens maybe once a month. And yes, it is a reliable play. We can really on Al to go very slowly, choke off the rest of the offense, and put up a shot. Very reliable.

We are now seeing what the team can be without the Slow Al game. Much better scoring, much more efficient, much more effective = wins, much more enjoyable to watch.

I should add that if you hate that play you also hated about 1/3 of Karl Malone's game. Sloan ran that same play through him all the time. Karl would get the ball, size up the D/his man, and then either shoot a fading J, find a cutting guard with that awesome hook pass, or back in/drive. It took several seconds typically before one of these things would happen. Just FYI, that play has been a staple of Jazz ball.

 

[zman1527]

I should add that if you hate that play you also hated about 1/3 of Karl Malone's game. Sloan ran that same play through him all the time. Karl would get the ball, size up the D/his man, and then either shoot a fading J, find a cutting guard with that awesome hook pass, or back in/drive. It took several seconds typically before one of these things would happen. Just FYI, that play has been a staple of Jazz ball.

Don't, just don't. Al Jefferson <<<< Karl Malone.

Yes, it has been a staple of "Jazz basketball". I think that is part of the problem, they keep trying to re-create Stockton to Malone. Go with what you have and get the best out of the talent available. Don't plug square pegs into round holes. There are other ways to play the game and we have seen it in the last two games.

 

[NAOS]

I should add that if you hate that play you also hated about 1/3 of Karl Malone's game. Sloan ran that same play through him all the time. Karl would get the ball, size up the D/his man, and then either shoot a fading J, find a cutting guard with that awesome hook pass, or back in/drive. It took several seconds typically before one of these things would happen. Just FYI, that play has been a staple of Jazz ball.

I'm gonna pretend you didn't just have this abortion of a post. Nice attempt at a sort-of, like, um, comparison to 1/3rd of a two-way, highly efficient player's game.... who was also such a superior passer from that spot that it negates this, um, comparison.

 

[franklin]

Don't, just don't. Al Jefferson <<<< Karl Malone.

Remember the alligator analogy, my friend?

 

[NAOS]

You should probably modify that to reflect reality. Jazz are playing well enough that Jefferson isn't getting traded, Millsap will most likely walk at the end of the season if KOLindsey can't get much back for him, & the FO will re-sign Jefferson for a modest amount. That's what I've said all along, of course, and JF is finally catching up.

It's sad how far out of favor Millsap has fallen though. I feel like I'm one of the few defending him from shameless character assassins.

There are worse outcomes than Al off the bench for a reasonable sum.

I still hope that doesn't happen. Trade deadline, baby. Sexual Turkey.

 

[Brown Notes]

I'm gonna pretend you didn't just have this abortion of a post. Nice attempt at a sort-of, like, um, comparison to 1/3rd of a two-way, highly efficient player's game.... who was also such a superior passer from that spot that it negates this, um, comparison.

So typical from people who choose to wear blinders.

The point being not only that the low post play works, and works well, but also takes a little time to develop. You two feel free to attempt to clown this but the fact is, I just demonstrated that Al is not slowing down the offense at all by executing that play. When the guards cut off high screens he finds them. When somebody gets a mismatch pinned under the basket he finds them. If nobody moves he's probably going to score anyways.

Again, if you don't like that play that's your business but coming back with weak *** trash like I'm retarded for bringing up Malone is simply dodging. That play does represent winning basketball, but for the offense as a whole to operate better you want smaller doses than we've seen for most of the first 20-odd games, and better execution from the 4 players on the court not named Al Jefferson. It has zero to do with Al Jefferson ruining anything offensively.

Cheers.

 

[NAOS]

So typical from people who choose to wear blinders.

The point being not only that the low post play works, and works well, but also takes a little time to develop. You two feel free to attempt to clown this but the fact is, I just demonstrated that Al is not slowing down the offense at all by executing that play. When the guards cut off high screens he finds them. When somebody gets a mismatch pinned under the basket he finds them. If nobody moves he's probably going to score anyways.

Again, if you don't like that play that's your business but coming back with weak *** trash like I'm retarded for bringing up Malone is simply dodging. That play does represent winning basketball, but for the offense as a whole to operate better you want smaller doses than we've seen for most of the first 20-odd games, and better execution from the 4 players on the court not named Al Jefferson. It has zero to do with Al Jefferson ruining anything offensively.

Cheers.

in other news, when a Center snaps the ball to the Quarterback for the Browns.... we can still call it "football"

 

[zman1527]

The point being not only that the low post play works, and works well, but also takes a little time to develop. You two feel free to attempt to clown this but the fact is, I just demonstrated that Al is not slowing down the offense at all by executing that play. When the guards cut off high screens he finds them. When somebody gets a mismatch pinned under the basket he finds them. If nobody moves he's probably going to score anyways.

Have you ever actually watched Slow Al play a game? He never makes those passes. Okay, once a month at best.

 

[Brown Notes]

You guys simply don't want to see the truth.

Watch Kanter run the exact same play. He gets the ball, holds it while the passer runs by him, then does his thing. It has nothing to do with the player doing something wrong, and everything to do with the design.

If you can't get your heads around this there's nothing that can be done for you. You've made your choices and will attempt to move the facts around them.

 

[NAOS]

You guys simply don't want to see the truth.

Watch Kanter run the exact same play. He gets the ball, holds it while the passer runs by him, then does his thing. It has nothing to do with the player doing something wrong, and everything to do with the design.

If you can't get your heads around this there's nothing that can be done for you. You've made your choices and will attempt to move the facts around them.

You refuse to see that players make "the play", not the other way around. Therefore, when Malone does something, it might be incomparable to when Jefferson or Kanter does something that is superficially similar. For you to say we "must hate something" based on this superficiality is the height of ignorance. I'd hate the Patriots offense if Cassel was getting the snap, and love it when Brady does. Questions?

 

[Brown Notes]

You're missing the point entirely, and purposely. You're not so stupid as to be incapable of understanding such a simple concept.

I'm addressing the idea that whoever the player is running that post play is slowing the offense down. At no point did I say Al = Karl, = Kanter or anybody else. For you two to attempt to put those words in my mouth is simply avoiding the stated reality of the play design. If Al is slowing the offense down then so is every other player who gets the ball in the same situation.

Again, if you don't like the play itself that is a completely different conversation. But the fact is Al Jefferson executes that play as well as anybody in the NBA right now which is why Corbin overuses it.

 

[NAOS]

I should add that if you hate that play you also hated about 1/3 of Karl Malone's game.

no it doesn't.

Sloan ran that same play through him all the time.

I refuse to start the debate with the assumption that it is even the same "play".

Look, if you don't think Hayward et al. know the precise limitations of Al's passing abilities and decision-making capacities -- and that these are drastically lower than Malone's -- then we should just pack it up here.

 

[franklin]

Brown Nose, just tell NAOS that he's "a good general discussion poster" and move on with it.

 

[NAOS]

Brown Nose, just tell NAOS that he's "a good general discussion poster" and move on with it.

Lololololololol.

Don't say that. I'm sensitive.

 

[zman1527]

I'm addressing the idea that whoever the player is running that post play is slowing the offense down. At no point did I say Al = Karl, = Kanter or anybody else. For you two to attempt to put those words in my mouth is simply avoiding the stated reality of the play design. If Al is slowing the offense down then so is every other player who gets the ball in the same situation.

That is simply not true and it is incomprehensible that you would suggest that. No one ever complained about the Jazz offense coming to a screeching halt when Malone had the ball on the low post. That is because it did not. Back to the basket, he was always looking over his left shoulder for a cutter in the lane, often hitting them with a sweet pass for a easy bucket. Tell me how many times Slow Al has done that. You count them using the fingers of one hand.

Corbin uses it because, yes, Al can score down there and because he was groomed for "Jazz basketball" = Stockton to Malone. Unfortunately, as we are now seeing in the last two games clearly, putting it in Al's hands damages the rest of the offense.

 

[Brown Notes]

So these guys are all cutting more when Sap, Favors, or Kanter gets the ball in the same situation? I must be missing those games.

 

[Brown Notes]

Don't, just don't. Al Jefferson <<<< Karl Malone.

Yes, it has been a staple of "Jazz basketball". I think that is part of the problem, they keep trying to re-create Stockton to Malone. Go with what you have and get the best out of the talent available. Don't plug square pegs into round holes. There are other ways to play the game and we have seen it in the last two games.

This is your earlier post Z. You must have forgotten. My premise has absolutely nothing to do with comparing the ability of Al Jefferson to Karl Malone, which you quite plainly make into the main issue here. Square pegs? Cmon man. Scoring in the low post is what Al does.

You guys brought it up multiple times, and I got a tasty neg from DJ, because that's all you wanted to see.

Clearly I'm wasting my time with you guys. You need your dead horse.

 

[NAOS]

Your premise has everything to do with some assumption of "the play". Whether you want to admit it or not, you set up a comparison with this assumption. This is basic argumentation.

 

[Brown Notes]

Your premise has everything to do with some assumption of "the play". Whether you want to admit it or not, you set up a comparison with this assumption. This is basic argumentation.

Well there's a reason that low post play is what I bring up, this is the possession in which Al holds onto the ball. The design is exactly where all the black hole talk comes from. Which was true his first year here. Not anymore.

You're not an idiot NAOS. You know I'm not comparing player abilities but rather execution of the same play with different personnel. You also know that is a designed "play". Putting quotation marks around the word does not make it into a myth. That's not streetball Al is playing. You know perfectly well he is doing what he is being coached to do. All the obfuscation by you in here is simply to deflect the premise I made rather than respond to it. It's sad really. Let it go, man.

 

[zman1527]

This is your earlier post Z. You must have forgotten. My premise has absolutely nothing to do with comparing the ability of Al Jefferson to Karl Malone, which you quite plainly make into the main issue here. Square pegs? Cmon man. Scoring in the low post is what Al does.

You guys brought it up multiple times, and I got a tasty neg from DJ, because that's all you wanted to see.

Clearly I'm wasting my time with you guys. You need your dead horse.

Your point seems to be that the play matters more than the player. So running a one on one iso is the same regardless if you have Kobe Bryant doing it or CJ Miles, right?

Putting the ball into the hands of Slow Al in the low block stagnates the offense for everyone else. This is because he is a poor passer, has very poor vision, and likes to take his time getting a shot off so everyone else stands around watching. Those are HIS personal traits and they do not apply to everyone who gets the ball on the low post so quit trying to say that it does.