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Did the Jazz mishandle things after the D-Will trade

LunaticWolf said:
So what happens to OKC if they drafted Oden instead of Durant?

OJ Mayo instead of Harden?

Tyreke Evans instead of Westbrook?

Odds of hitting 3 strikes in the NBA draft is slim. Are there scouts that much better than the rest of the league, or did they get lucky?

Per 36 is terrible for people playing less than 20 minutes. It doesn't translate out at all. Last season, Kanter was huffing and puffing after 5 minutes on the court. You think he could perform at the same level for 30 minutes a night?
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Yes i think he could perform at the same level for 30 minutes..... Wanna know why? cause i have seen him do it. (jefferson has missed games)
December 7th toronto vs utah Enes Kanter starts and plays 35 minutes... 18 points, 8 rebounds, 1 block, 1 turnover.... jazz win by 32 pts

Now here is the part where you say.... but but but it was against the raptors so it doesn't mean anything.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Re: Lillard-Mania

Everyone's acting like Lillard was this sure thing. Everyone is operating off of hindsight, no matter how much they will say they liked Lillard leading up to the draft. I honestly cannot imagine the Jazz going all-in on a 23-year old scoring PG that played against bad competition. And even if they had given the chance, why does everyone assume that the Jazz would've?

So much conjecture about an issue that is nothing but spilled milk. The Jazz were not really even close to getting Lillard, so please, stop the whining.
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I've heard many interviews with KOC talking about how much they loved him. I do think they go all in for him if they were a few spots away.

Like you said though. It's all spilled milk and pointless to discuss.
 
I've always disliked the half-assed rebuild, but I'll reserve full judgements till the summer when we have a more complete scope on the direction we're taking. If we let all the vets walk, just play the youngsters so they develop and get a really high pick in 2014, then I'll be happy and say the Jazz anticipated a draft class worth "tanking" for. Really, the top 8 or so picks in that draft look as good as any year...ever. Top 2014 picks are worth more than anything outside of an established superstar.

I think we'll look back at this rebuild as either patient to the point that it severely stunted the growth of our core, or it was just patient enough to land us a fantastic pick in a fantastic draft and/or get a great signing in free agency due to our suddenly huge amount of cap space. It's not too late to take the second path I described, but we won't know if that's the plan until it is, or isn't happening.
 
Durrrr said:
Over on the Realgm board, in the Jazz forum, there is some discussion going on about rebuilding and comparison to how the Spurs handle things as well as how OKC did things.

One poster, Stocktonshorts had a great summary of the situation and I agree with him 100% here it is:



https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1230709&p=34585514#p34585514

I agree with him 100%. I think the Jazz have screwed this situation up. They had a great opportunity to set ourselves up for the future, instead, they opted for a first round exit last year, another one this year (likely) and stifled growth for our youngsters.

Not to mention the fact that the decision to try and "win now at all costs" meant zero draft picks last year.

The Jazz would have been able to get Lillard last year because either a. they would have been worse than the Warriors, getting the pick, or b. they would not have beaten the Warriors in all those games last year meaning we get that pick and would be able to maneuver to get Lillard.

Bottom line, the Jazz have screwed themselves after the Deron trade when they should have traded guys in the way.

I know that this has been discussed, but I thought it was interesting to see the details of how the Thunder handled this.
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1) Was/is there any team willing to trade a top 5 pick for for either Al or Paul?
2) Was/is there a desperate team willing to offer a 1st as a salary dump?
3) Was there any other player to challenge Durant for minutes (Wally, Wilkens)?
4) Durant was the Player of the Year in college, thus he warranted the minutes (Favors/Enes has not shown anything of the sorts in college)
5) SEA was relocating, so they could afford to stay crappy (dump salaries) cause they didnt need to win to put fannies in the seat
6) The future still looks bright here, we're just missing a PG (whom we can acquire via: S&T or trading up)
 
NUMBERICA said:
Re: Lillard-Mania

Everyone's acting like Lillard was this sure thing. Everyone is operating off of hindsight, no matter how much they will say they liked Lillard leading up to the draft. I honestly cannot imagine the Jazz going all-in on a 23-year old scoring PG that played against bad competition. And even if they had given the chance, why does everyone assume that the Jazz would've?

So much conjecture about an issue that is nothing but spilled milk. The Jazz were not really even close to getting Lillard, so please, stop the whining.
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Except for the fact that even Mr. KOC himself said thet 'it really hurt seeing him go' to another team-- likely do they they extensive amounts that they had scouted him, along with most-likely trying to do everything possible to trade up.

And they were a coin flip away, seeing as Sacremento apparently was open to trades.


But sure, keep that same train of though Mr. NUMBERICA.

-George
 
Wow, spelling mistakes galore.


I shall try to proofread my posts more from here on in. Editing is for the weak.

-George
 
OP: You left out the part about the franchise leaving Seattle. Maybe winning games and taking on payroll aren't a priority for a franchise in the process of getting sold and relocated.
 
Durrrr said:
I'm going to refer to you, lunaticwolf, etc as the "separate but equal" crowd. Never question the status quo, the management. The Jazz are flawless and above any kind of scrutiny. They know what is best and are therefore not to be challenged in their decisions and way of thinking. lol
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Nah, I just don't pretend to act like this current incarnation is the final product of KOC/Lindsey's vision for the team. I'm willing to give them time because I trust that they know what they are doing.
 
follow-the-flock.jpg
 
How about adding better pieces around Big Al making him a 3rd option on offense? Look at what no-defense Boozer is doing in Chicago. Look at Z-Bo. Both those guys suck *** defensively but their teams are contending. Why not Al put in a similar position? Jus sayin.

What the Jazz are capable of cap-wise is coming to a head this summer and we'll see what the front office has planned. Shipping Enes, Favors, Millsap (S&T) and/or Hayward could very well happen to get some solid wing scoring in here. Big Al with Favors and two star guards could do some damage, as long as Al is either the 2nd or 3rd option on offense.
 
Per 36 is terrible for people playing less than 20 minutes. It doesn't translate out at all. Last season, Kanter was huffing and puffing after 5 minutes on the court. You think he could perform at the same level for 30 minutes a night?
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Or the flip side, is there a drop off of rookie mistakes after a guy gets comfortable?
Like you say per36 has limitations. We really don't know who Kanter is. Maybe he is a turnover prone clutz, maybe he is a superstar. Pot odds are good though with 4 lottery picks.
FWIW, last year Kanter couldn't handle the time, this year is a completely different story!
 
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Here's my point. So far what we've gotten from the DWill trade (Feb 2011) that contributes to our starting line up is 8 pts and 3 reb, and that's from a guy that we got indirectly from the trade. But hey, look at all that potential we got back.
 
You know it's a ****ty season when JF starts bitching about Portland taking the consensus #1 seven footer to pair with LaMarcus Aldridge (who they stole from Chicago for Tyrus Thomas) and a guy who just won rookie of the year in a 127-128 vote (who they also stole in a trade for Randy Foye), and somehow using this as an indictment of Jazz Basketball.

Can't we all be OKC fans yo!
 
franklin said:
You know it's a ****ty season when JF starts bitching about Portland taking the consensus #1 seven footer to pair with LaMarcus Aldridge (who they stole from Chicago for Tyrus Thomas) and a guy who just won rookie of the year in a 127-128 vote (who they also stole in a trade for Randy Foye), and somehow using this as an indictment of Jazz Basketball.

Can't we all be OKC fans yo!
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Well since you put it that way .. I'm embarrassed and fully on board supporting the FO.
 
I think KOC and Lindsey are good hires. Keep in mind that if GSW didn't kamikaze last year, we might have been able to make a play for Lillard, or picked up another chip player in last year's draft. If Houston didn't blow 7 of their last 8 games last year, the Jazz would have had their pick as well.

You can only play the cards you're dealt.
 
Look at it this way -- the Jazz made the playoffs once and were out in four. In the process, they lost draft picks and slowed the development of their players. Nothing more needs to be said.
 
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