What's new

Affordable Care?

The bottom line is almost everyone that has experience actually using social security and Medicare would not give it up for any "private sector" solution. The only people complaining about them and calling for them to be replaced by private sector solutions are people who don't use them.
 
The bottom line is almost everyone that has experience actually using social security and Medicare would not give it up for any "private sector" solution. The only people complaining about them and calling for them to be replaced by private sector solutions are people who don't use them.

So what you are saying is that each side is looking out for their best interest? No ****?

People receiving SSA and Medicare want it to stay since it's to late for them to make the living they were before and people that know it will be gone by the time they are eligible, since it is so poorly run/flawed and not being fixed, want nothing to do with it.

Stunning. I think you are on to something ground breaking Salty.
 
So what you are saying is that each side is looking out for their best interest? No ****?

People receiving SSA and Medicare want it to stay since it's to late for them to make the living they were before and people that know it will be gone by the time they are eligible, since it is so poorly run/flawed and not being fixed, want nothing to do with it.

Stunning. I think you are on to something ground breaking Salty.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the people who would know if it's a terribly run program, the people who actually use it, prefer it to the alternatives.

Again, try to get an insurance company to offer medical insurance to an 80 year old man. See if they'll accept him at all. If they will, the price will be sky high. And if the old man can somehow afford it, he'll almost certainly be dropped within the first couple years, after the insurance company gets tired of paying for hip replacements, heart surgery, tons of medications, and all the rest of the expensive medical care that old people typically need.
 
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying the people who would know if it's a terribly run program, the people who actually use it, prefer it to the alternatives.

Again, try to get an insurance company to offer medical insurance to an 80 year old man. See if they'll accept him at all. If they will, the price will be sky high. And if the old man can somehow afford it, he'll almost certainly be dropped within the first couple years, after the insurance company gets tired of paying for hip replacements, heart surgery, tons of medications, and all the rest of the expensive medical care that old people typically need.

People on it complain all day, every day. The problem is that at that point in their lives there is no viable alternative. Since they are screwed with a horribly run program we should submit future generations to the same fate?

No thanks.
 
People on it complain all day, every day. The problem is that at that point in their lives there is no viable alternative. Since they are screwed with a horribly run program we should submit future generations to the same fate?

No thanks.

There is absolutely an alternative, lol. Nobody is forced to use Medicare. Every single person on Medicare has the option to go get whatever insurance they want.

So if it's so terrible, and a private sector solution would be so much better, then why does anyone even use it?
 
There is absolutely an alternative, lol. Nobody is forced to use Medicare. Every single person on Medicare has the option to go get whatever insurance they want.

So if it's so terrible, and a private sector solution would be so much better, then why does anyone even use it?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
That 70% is if nothing changes when they know it will. It will change for the worse but they don't want to tell you that.

Again, they know it will. Not they think or maybe, they know...

In what year, by whose current projections, does the rate fall below 70%?
 
The problem is that at that point in their lives there is no viable alternative. Since they are screwed with a horribly run program we should submit future generations to the same fate?

No thanks.

Without agreeing to your "horribly run" comment, I would like to know to which fate would you prefer to consign future generations?
 
Social Security and the "Affordable Care" Act ain't comparable as legislation besides they are both bad liberal schemes involving the Federal Government where it doesn't belong.

Families, churches, charities, private benevolent homes, mutual aid societies were all doing just fine providing help to the elderly poor, and the trend was toward pensions for the working class. The Federal Government shouldn't have gotten involved where it didn't belong. It's unnecessary and inappropriate involvement got in the way of the growth of effective, varied, and versatile private solutions.
 
Families, churches, charities, private benevolent homes, mutual aid societies were all doing just fine providing help to the elderly poor, and the trend was toward pensions for the working class. The Federal Government shouldn't have gotten involved where it didn't belong. It's unnecessary and inappropriate involvement got in the way of the growth of effective, varied, and versatile private solutions.


Hahahahahaha


Whatever you have to tell yourself.
 
Without agreeing to your "horribly run" comment, I would like to know to which fate would you prefer to consign future generations?

Remember that you asked for it.

Why does SSA pay a $255 "Lump Sum Death Payment" (LSDP) to spouses or minor children but not adult children? Why pay it at all? In todays value it is pretty much a slap in the face.

How about the 130 day average to get an initial claim approved. There should be no reason it should take that long. Do you know why it does? Because people are allowed to apply for things like broken arms that will be fine in 6-8 weeks despite the definition of disability, under SSA rules, asking that it have lasted or expect to last 12 straight months and/or result in death. So that adds tens of thousands of claims every year for **** that they know will get denied but have to process them anyways. Or how about all the mountains of paperwork needed for a disability claim. You claim you became disabled in 01/01/08 but you earned 1,000 dollars once in 2009 and nothing since? Here is an SSA 821 (complicated and long form) to fill out for something that is obviously a fluke and you cannot work but I digress.

How about a hearing that takes on average 1 year to even get a hearing date. ONE YEAR. That is not one year to be approved but one year to get a hearing date that is usually 30-60 days out then you have 2-4 months after that for a decision. Why? I will tell you why because you have judges from out of state that are allowed to make their own choices on how many cases they have a year. Only 75-80% meet the guideline of number of cases heard. So you have 20 percent not pulling their weight. What happens to them? Not a damn thing. Business as usual. Or how about when you bring a medical proffesional that knows your particular case to that hearing and the Judge tells them to sit down and be quiet. Good thing that medical profesional took the day of work in an attempt to help a person out. So much for the Judge giving the claimant a fair shake but again I digress.

How about fraud in SSA. I will tell you about fraud. A guy gets caught lying and commiting fraud to Social Security. Let us say for 15k. They worked under the table and did not report it and it is found out by SSA. A "claims rep" for SSA spends hours detailing and documenting all the contact attempts, research and contacts they put in to this refferal and it is reffered to OIG (Office of the Inspector General) for developement. That is done because SSA cannot prosecute anyone for breaking the law and frauding them. So this owrkers has this case and he has it for say 9-12 months and nothing is done to collect the overpayment or even stop the benefits in most cases. Regardless of wether the person is eligible or not. That OIG agent puts in mountains of work. Then they reffer it to a prosecutor and you know what they are told 85% (or more) of the time? "No thanks. This wont get my name in the paper". So it is sent back to SSA and all that is done is Administrative Sanctions. No SSA for that criminal for 6 months to a year and when they do say 10% is taken from any benefits due to recover the amount of the fraud. Good thing all those extra funds paying them incorrectly for a year were wasted. Or that all that time and money was spent developing the case to be told to go pound sand.

Do not even get me started on SSI. If you do not know what that is then go look it up.

How about when someone dies. Say they die on 02/28/13 at 11:59 PM. They are not due a check that month. Period. No pro rating no nothing. Give the full amount back. No don't take it out of your bank account sweet little old widow as treasury hits that account no matter if you take that month to SSA or not. So now you are double hit and your account is over drawn. It takes a couple months to get that money back, good luck. Overdraft fees? HAHAHAHA no.

Or how about if a case is actually approved for SSA disability. Can it be processed and put into pay right then. No. Why you ask? Because, obviously, the people in the public offices can't be trusted. So it goes to a "processing center". No, you cannot go there and talk to the person putting your claim into pay. Nice try. Now there are only 7 (8 if you count th one that only does foreign retirement claims) of these jewels of effeciency in the U.S. They deal with a dramatic amount of claims. There are after all only 7 and millions of claims are taken per year. So you have to wait about 6 weeks to get your disability claim put into pay. No matter that on average you have waited 200 days to be approved. Back pay? Add another 6 months after the time it took to put the claim into pay.

Or how about responsible spending of funds. Here are the brand new computers for your office. What about the ones they got two years ago that work perfectly? No worries no ones anyways! That brand new office visitor intake program that time and money was spent on developing and installing? Sorry there is a brand new one and that one is being installed. Dont worry that the old one worked fine. They have to stay modern despite the older program being more user friendly, faster, less glitch prone and all around better. How are some more pens, note pads, glue, envelopes, printer paper and files. Oh all files are electronic now? To bad. They got bought them so the office takes them. There are enough pens and glue? Stick them in the back somewhere. No one has taken a particular pamphlet in over 6 months? Well gosh darn it here are 50 more!

Security!!! An office is closed so many days a week and the public has no access? Well that is unsafe! A guard most go in there and sit on his butt all day. That guard must not read, sleep, talk on a personal cell phone (that they should not even have) or anything else. They must sit there and look pretty. From 8:45-4:15 Nevermind that offices are open from 9-3 every day. Bankers are jealous of SSA hours. To bad you took off work at 3 to come in. Try next time they are open. There are roughly 1,600 SSA offices that pay a guard 1 hour a day 5 days a week for nothing. NOTHING. You figure the average guard makes 15.50. So 16,000 x 1 = 1,600 (hours a day). 1,600 x 5 = 8,000 (hours a week). 8,000 x 52 = 416,000 (hours a year). Minus the 10 federal holidays. 1,600 x 10 = 16,000. So you are left with 416,000 - 16,000 = 400,000 hours a year on wasted guard wages. 400,000 x 15.50 (average salary) = 6,200,00 a year in wages for absolutely nothing. for 1,600 guys to sit on their butts doing nothing.

HOT DAMN!! The model of effiecency.
 
Hmm. It wont let me place a space between paragraphs like I typed it. Damn text wall ...
 
remember that you asked for it.

Why does ssa pay a $255 "lump sum death payment" (lsdp) to spouses or minor children but not adult children? Why pay it at all? In todays value it is pretty much a slap in the face.

How about the 130 day average to get an initial claim approved. There should be no reason it should take that long. Do you know why it does? Because people are allowed to apply for things like broken arms that will be fine in 6-8 weeks despite the definition of disability, under ssa rules, asking that it have lasted or expect to last 12 straight months and/or result in death. So that adds tens of thousands of claims every year for **** that they know will get denied but have to process them anyways. Or how about all the mountains of paperwork needed for a disability claim. You claim you became disabled in 01/01/08 but you earned 1,000 dollars once in 2009 and nothing since? Here is an ssa 821 (complicated and long form) to fill out for something that is obviously a fluke and you cannot work but i digress.

How about a hearing that takes on average 1 year to even get a hearing date. One year. That is not one year to be approved but one year to get a hearing date that is usually 30-60 days out then you have 2-4 months after that for a decision. Why? I will tell you why because you have judges from out of state that are allowed to make their own choices on how many cases they have a year. Only 75-80% meet the guideline of number of cases heard. So you have 20 percent not pulling their weight. What happens to them? Not a damn thing. Business as usual. Or how about when you bring a medical proffesional that knows your particular case to that hearing and the judge tells them to sit down and be quiet. Good thing that medical profesional took the day of work in an attempt to help a person out. So much for the judge giving the claimant a fair shake but again i digress.

How about fraud in ssa. I will tell you about fraud. A guy gets caught lying and commiting fraud to social security. Let us say for 15k. They worked under the table and did not report it and it is found out by ssa. A "claims rep" for ssa spends hours detailing and documenting all the contact attempts, research and contacts they put in to this refferal and it is reffered to oig (office of the inspector general) for developement. That is done because ssa cannot prosecute anyone for breaking the law and frauding them. So this owrkers has this case and he has it for say 9-12 months and nothing is done to collect the overpayment or even stop the benefits in most cases. Regardless of wether the person is eligible or not. That oig agent puts in mountains of work. Then they reffer it to a prosecutor and you know what they are told 85% (or more) of the time? "no thanks. This wont get my name in the paper". So it is sent back to ssa and all that is done is administrative sanctions. No ssa for that criminal for 6 months to a year and when they do say 10% is taken from any benefits due to recover the amount of the fraud. Good thing all those extra funds paying them incorrectly for a year were wasted. Or that all that time and money was spent developing the case to be told to go pound sand.

Do not even get me started on ssi. If you do not know what that is then go look it up.

How about when someone dies. Say they die on 02/28/13 at 11:59 pm. They are not due a check that month. Period. No pro rating no nothing. Give the full amount back. No don't take it out of your bank account sweet little old widow as treasury hits that account no matter if you take that month to ssa or not. So now you are double hit and your account is over drawn. It takes a couple months to get that money back, good luck. Overdraft fees? Hahahaha no.

Or how about if a case is actually approved for ssa disability. Can it be processed and put into pay right then. No. Why you ask? Because, obviously, the people in the public offices can't be trusted. So it goes to a "processing center". No, you cannot go there and talk to the person putting your claim into pay. Nice try. Now there are only 7 (8 if you count th one that only does foreign retirement claims) of these jewels of effeciency in the u.s. They deal with a dramatic amount of claims. There are after all only 7 and millions of claims are taken per year. So you have to wait about 6 weeks to get your disability claim put into pay. No matter that on average you have waited 200 days to be approved. Back pay? Add another 6 months after the time it took to put the claim into pay.

Or how about responsible spending of funds. Here are the brand new computers for your office. What about the ones they got two years ago that work perfectly? No worries no ones anyways! That brand new office visitor intake program that time and money was spent on developing and installing? Sorry there is a brand new one and that one is being installed. Dont worry that the old one worked fine. They have to stay modern despite the older program being more user friendly, faster, less glitch prone and all around better. How are some more pens, note pads, glue, envelopes, printer paper and files. Oh all files are electronic now? To bad. They got bought them so the office takes them. There are enough pens and glue? Stick them in the back somewhere. No one has taken a particular pamphlet in over 6 months? Well gosh darn it here are 50 more!

Security!!! An office is closed so many days a week and the public has no access? Well that is unsafe! A guard most go in there and sit on his butt all day. That guard must not read, sleep, talk on a personal cell phone (that they should not even have) or anything else. They must sit there and look pretty. From 8:45-4:15 nevermind that offices are open from 9-3 every day. Bankers are jealous of ssa hours. To bad you took off work at 3 to come in. Try next time they are open. There are roughly 1,600 ssa offices that pay a guard 1 hour a day 5 days a week for nothing. Nothing. You figure the average guard makes 15.50. So 16,000 x 1 = 1,600 (hours a day). 1,600 x 5 = 8,000 (hours a week). 8,000 x 52 = 416,000 (hours a year). Minus the 10 federal holidays. 1,600 x 10 = 16,000. So you are left with 416,000 - 16,000 = 400,000 hours a year on wasted guard wages. 400,000 x 15.50 (average salary) = 6,200,00 a year in wages for absolutely nothing. For 1,600 guys to sit on their butts doing nothing.

Hot damn!! The model of effiecency.

boom bitches!!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Stoked again.
 
I see spaces between your paragraphs.

Many of your complaints seem to boil down to 'the system has to respond to ways in which it might be abused, and it makes things difficult for everyone'. In general, it is not more effecient to allow a system to be abused.

Also, much of this seems to apply to disability claims, as opposed to the more typical retirement claims. The point of having short-term and long-term disability insurance is to account for these issues.

Why does SSA pay a $255 "Lump Sum Death Payment" (LSDP) to spouses or minor children but not adult children? Why pay it at all? In todays value it is pretty much a slap in the face.

The last time I read a Social Security update, it said that if I died, my wife with two+ dependents would be getting over $1300/month (and just over $!K for her alone). As long as I cover the house with life insurance, that's enough to live on even if she doesn't work. So, I'm not sure what the $225 represents.

How about the 130 day average to get an initial claim approved. There should be no reason it should take that long. Do you know why it does? Because people are allowed to apply for things like broken arms that will be fine in 6-8 weeks despite the definition of disability, under SSA rules, asking that it have lasted or expect to last 12 straight months and/or result in death. So that adds tens of thousands of claims every year for **** that they know will get denied but have to process them anyways.

The alternative being that the clerk in the SS office, under their own recognizance and with no relevant evidence, should be able to decide there and then which claims to process and which ones not to? Do you think private insurabnce companies give their clerks that luxury?

Or how about all the mountains of paperwork needed for a disability claim. You claim you became disabled in 01/01/08 but you earned 1,000 dollars once in 2009 and nothing since? Here is an SSA 821 (complicated and long form) to fill out for something that is obviously a fluke and you cannot work but I digress.

Would it be better to just take people's word that the $1000 was a one-time thing?

Or that all that time and money was spent developing the case to be told to go pound sand.

Happens in private insurance, as well.

How about when someone dies. Say they die on 02/28/13 at 11:59 PM. They are not due a check that month. Period. No pro rating no nothing. Give the full amount back. No don't take it out of your bank account sweet little old widow as treasury hits that account no matter if you take that month to SSA or not. So now you are double hit and your account is over drawn. It takes a couple months to get that money back, good luck. Overdraft fees? HAHAHAHA no.

I've had mysterious deposits show up in my account before, and then get taken out, and I'm not on SS.

Or how about responsible spending of funds. Here are the brand new computers for your office. What about the ones they got two years ago that work perfectly? No worries no ones anyways!

Not really an issue with SS, but with government accounting generally. It also happens in large corporations.

Security!!!

Seriously? All companies have that issue.

HOT DAMN!! The model of effiecency.

Now, get to the part where the government is less efficient than private industry.

Also, the question was: to which fate do you want to consign future generations? What's your alternative to SS?
 
Yes an employee there in the local office should be able to tell a pregnant woman they cannot file due to pregnancy.

The 255 is exactly what I said it was.

Good to know your excuse for wasting millions a year is "they do it to". Well I don't fund "they".

As for the earnings it is not "take their word". They have that info already. It is reported by both the state (every quarter) and the IRS every year to SSA.

Again good to see your defense for poor stewardship and efficiency is "they do it too!"
 
Also some of your responses such as about the incorrect deposits have nothing to do with SSA so they are of no worth in this discussion.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top