Will there be American invasion in Syria?
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Should you believe all that, you actually make my other point, of how Ronald Reagan was a quack and possibly the worst president since Ulysses S Grant.
That being said, you're also going down the path of "because past leaders have enabled it, it's totally ok to ignore it now". Isn't that a lot like acknowledging the failures you've had in the past and because you made those mistakes, not fixing them in the future?
You're still ignoring the bottom line. There are chemical weapons being used. Someone needs to take action to do it, US or UN, or Bob the builder. Even if it's exactly as you think it is, we can't do anything about what happened in the past. All we can do is clean it up.
Lets identify these declassified documents, certify that they are 100% real and not read out of context, and then make sure key members of the Reagan and Bush administrations serve time. I'm all for that. Should that be the case, assuming everything you're posting is 100% founded and true, great do it. It'll show the world that once in a while that tin foil hat has a grain of truth to go on. Good for you. Good for the US.
But even if this is all an illuminati conspiracy, identifying that it is a conspiracy does exactly NOTHING for the problem we have now.
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mellow
Well-Known Member
A few quick things. If heyhey isn't heyhey who is he? I get so tired of trying to keep up with all of the alts and splits and fakers and trollbots.
Franklin, I got a good laugh off your 10 beer rants. Quite different than the 10 beer response I'm used to seeing. You didn't even threaten to kick my *** once. Impressive. Maybe that comes at 18 beers? Anyway, you seem like a smart guy, maybe someday when you sober up you can see it my way? I'll help you make your hat, instead of tinfoil we'll use beer cans. Probably not huh.
As far as 'my crowd' I'm not part of a crowd that I am aware of. I'm just a bitter old man who has been jaded by a lifetime of watching people lie and spin to get theirs. People will say or do almost anything to get thier way--kids for candybar, adults for couple hundred bucks. To that, even people on this board go through the pains of creating ALT identiites just to get a little advantage in a completly virtual world. Nothing in my experience says that once a person reaches a certain level of political power or postion that he then abondones the lying, spinning, and cons that got him there. If anything as the stakes get bigger so do the lies.
So if being skepitical makes me a nutter in some peoples opinion so be it. In the case of war and violence and death. I'd rather make a mistake of being a skeptic and promoting peace than banging the drums of war.
El Roacho. The bigger picture for me that is being ignored is the rebels. If the US starts blowing away at Assadd do the chemicals end up in the rebel's hands? Do we know who they are? Are they are 'friends' like the Libyan rebels were our friends? The rebels in Syria have shown no kindness to ehnic minorities or Christians. US destabalizing the country could lead to more genocide and attrocities.
Franklin, I got a good laugh off your 10 beer rants. Quite different than the 10 beer response I'm used to seeing. You didn't even threaten to kick my *** once. Impressive. Maybe that comes at 18 beers? Anyway, you seem like a smart guy, maybe someday when you sober up you can see it my way? I'll help you make your hat, instead of tinfoil we'll use beer cans. Probably not huh.
As far as 'my crowd' I'm not part of a crowd that I am aware of. I'm just a bitter old man who has been jaded by a lifetime of watching people lie and spin to get theirs. People will say or do almost anything to get thier way--kids for candybar, adults for couple hundred bucks. To that, even people on this board go through the pains of creating ALT identiites just to get a little advantage in a completly virtual world. Nothing in my experience says that once a person reaches a certain level of political power or postion that he then abondones the lying, spinning, and cons that got him there. If anything as the stakes get bigger so do the lies.
So if being skepitical makes me a nutter in some peoples opinion so be it. In the case of war and violence and death. I'd rather make a mistake of being a skeptic and promoting peace than banging the drums of war.
El Roacho. The bigger picture for me that is being ignored is the rebels. If the US starts blowing away at Assadd do the chemicals end up in the rebel's hands? Do we know who they are? Are they are 'friends' like the Libyan rebels were our friends? The rebels in Syria have shown no kindness to ehnic minorities or Christians. US destabalizing the country could lead to more genocide and attrocities.
It's more than fair to ask that question. But it's looking like Assad wants to give up those chemical weapons to the UN. And if that's the case, and there will be no chemical weapons in Syria's hands, we won't have to start asking that.
No he doesn't. He wants to buy time and trusts the Russians to protect him.
It appears the tinfoil hat is now on the other head.
We need to give him every chance in the world to cooperate. Even if it means letting him buy some time.
I never accused you of wearing tinfoil. Also I agree that we should give him a chance. I am also realistic that Assad will only do it if he feels he has no other option.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
I don't believe in the ****in Illuminati. I am not some quack conspiracy theorist. I simply am not afraid to see the truth. Most US actions have been fueled by greed. I at first found Obamas gung ho approach perplexing because the "National Interest"(by this I mean financial interest) was not at first clear. What has been going on in the Sudan and the Congo is far worse than this. I don't buy for a second that this is about Chemical weapons.
If I am wearing a tin foil hat then you are wearing a blind fold.
If by "wearing a bindfold" you mean "won't go to the absolute furthest extent any sane person can imagine, and jumping one step past that to find my conclusion", then yes.
Your truth is nothing more than where you want to think. You clearly have the need to think of the US as a mastermind that controls everything through a series of back alley deals. And that's cool, you do that. I'm totally cool with you letting that take you to your grave.
But, before you rattle off about how the US government is working with an Alien species, which explains why we're always one step ahead of everyone else, what's your answer? What do you do in this situation? Where, exactly, do you stand at THIS point. Make it quick and simple, don't give 150 years of psuedo truths and opinion. Don't give me "It's a matter of fact that this guy read some documentation co-authored by a the guy who invented the cuban sandwich at the same hotel Assad and Saddam met at."
You are one of the worlds super powers. The UN has clearly defined a specific type of warfare(chemical) as off limits. Someone in a country is using them. You know for sure the existing government has a stockpile of this technology. NO ONE GIVES A CRAP WHERE IT CAME FROM. You know that this is HUGE and ALL OVER the media.
Oh, great one, praytell! What would you have us do?
If you read my responses again you might notice that your "way" has already been considered.
The petrodollar recycling is as simple as the US running huge trade deficits with Arab countries that were accumulating more dollars than they had use for. Floating exchange rates are supposed to avoid these sudden jolts, but a) they were in their infancy at the time and not universally adopted yet, but still being fought against with currency pegs and b) state dominated economies don't mesh with floating exchange systems well.
So we had a ton of USD going into countries that were taking it out of circulation, which puts some tough downward pressure on global GDP growth. Petrodollar recycling was a convenient solution by maintaining sales while obtaining a long term, diversified return on these sales by investing the capital in Europe and US, and also into what became part of the Latin American debt crisis.
The other solution to collecting way too many USD was to do what OPEC did in 1973 by quadrupling the price of oil overnight (yes I realize that was a political increase, but...). Saudi Arabia in particular hates this solution because it creates state-led searches for alternatives to go along with market-based demand destruction and newly economical supply production. Like all commodities, oil prices always collapse under heavy pressures, and the exporter nations budgets suffer for long periods of supply gluts.
This is the benefit that Saudi's offered Putin: oil export price stability and to not challenge their European gas sales in exchange for giving up Syria.
I'm sure you can see that putting it into another context takes away the perceived incentive for war, which is even better than the petrodollar conspiracies IMO because nobody has a reason to believe we would actually benefit from war in the oil rich regions. It also removes the fear mongering that the US will fail if we don't enforce dollar hegemony through war.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Who the hell cares?
As long as he isn't using this stuff to kill women and children, who the hell cares?
And if Assad and Putin are such great buddies, as you seem to suggest, then why wouldn't Russia rearm him even after Murika blows his country all to hell? Or Iran? Or the black market? Or hell, from scientists in his own country. It's not like chemical weapons is cold fusion. If a country really wants them they'll find a way to get them.
Besides, aren't the rebels backed by Al-Queda? Instead of persecuting Assad why aren't we helping him as Reagan would have done? Sounds to me like Assad is doing us a favor. Keep gassing these people!
I really can't wait until this Cold War generation dies off. They see a Communist conspiracy behind everything China does and something sinister behind everything the Ruskies do.
I'm pretty sure Putin has better things to do than to play this cat and mouse game. Like staying in power, education, maintaining civil control, building their own economy... you know, the **** our government refuses to do? Lets focus on our own damn country for a change.
Ahh, your true colors. How delightsome.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
It's called satire. If Al Queda backs the rebels and Assad is an *** wipe then what is to be gained here? We are essentially entering a quagmire of satan vs lucifer. Which evil is worse? Al Queda or *** Wipe? Does murika really want to plant its obese *** into this blood bath? How many more Vietnams and Iraqs must we go through before we learn?
So if Assad is really just delaying and the Ruskies have nothin better to do than play this game, what then is the proper course of action?
Shock and Awe? Will we be treated as liberators just like in Iraq? Cuz... Noooooo American soldier was ever killed in Iraq. Remember now, we are the "good guys" there.
Obviously the government's of the world care.
Putin is doing this to maintain/fight for power and influence. Energy, a friendly middle east government, a Mediterranean port...
I agree on focusing on our own problems. However that only serves so far. Isolationism is not the answer.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
If you wanna fight, get off your candy *** and enlist. Go over and fight. Spend your own money fighting to "liberate" the toilet of the world, the ME.
It's always easier to send someone else and spend another's money to fight a war. Thee biggest problem we have in our country are armchair soldiers. If Obama and the rest of our congress had to send a son or daughter to fight on the front line it sure would be interesting to see how few koreas, Vietnams, Afghanistans, Iraqs, Kosovos, etc we would find ourselves into.
Anyone familiar with our own history knows that our military is good at blowing **** up. Not too good at rebuilding a country. Just ask Iraq. 4500+ lives wasted. It's as big of a turd today as it was 10... 15... 20 years ago! If you spend any time with any Iraqi most would agree too. Hell, many would say that we have made things worse. As bad as Saddam was, at least the energy and water worked!
Hence, why our FF desired for the military to be used in self defense. Not as whatever the hell it has been used as since we were last attacked by another nation, WWII.
Public Opinion globally. If we can get other nations to see that we are willing to stop chemical weapon usage, that's great. But if we can get the people of the world to see that we're restraining ourselves to find a peaceful resolution instead of another vietnam/iraq, then we've got a HUGE, cost effective win without even firing a shot.
Wow, that's pretty ****ing funny since I WAS enlisted from 2000-2006. Candy ***.
More than 2 years at sea and 2 deployments to the Gulf, bitch.
EDIT:
Here's me loading my missile system in March 2003 steaming towards the Gulf.
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Sure they can care. We all care. But to what extent? And who thinks that our cure will be worse than the disease?
I wish it rained candy and doughnuts in N Korea. That doesn't mean we should invade it to "liberate" it's people. Often, our own intervention leads to a worse situation. Just look at Iraq. More people have died and are dying and will die because of our actions than Saddam ever killed.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's pretty ****ing funny since I WAS enlisted from 2000-2006. Candy ***.
More than 2 years at sea and 2 deployments to the Gulf, bitch.
EDIT:
Here's me loading my missile system in March 2003 steaming towards the Gulf.
Good. Then put your money where your mouth is and sign up to go stick it to Assad. I'm sure Al-Queda will greet you as a liberator....
And pay for it yourself. Stop stealing my hard earned taxes (and my children's and grandchildrens) to pay for your cute altruistic endearvors. Fight for freedom with your own life, time, and money.
80+ percent of Americans agree with me btw.
